Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems?

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems?
Date	2017-05-17 12:27 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<ofhtft$jd$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <1cca60ee-6f98-443d-8466-d7efbea8724f@googlegroups.com> <xn0kpxod34i5h3a00e@nntp.aioe.org> <of8dmm$3rk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <b_6dnSjckr5k-oXEnZ2dnUU7-enNnZ2d@supernews.com> <aa0cb564-cbe6-49b5-b7f4-059f5eebf2d7@googlegroups.com>

Show all headers | View raw

On 5/14/2017 1:43 PM, humptydumpty wrote:
> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 5:21:50 PM UTC+3, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> HAA wrote:
>>
>>> In the days when "return stack" meant return stack and threaded code
>>> was the norm R> DROP is what you would use.  ANS precludes this,
>>> forcing programmers to adopt inefficient solutions.
>>
>> No.  That is not how it happened.  ANS did not preclude return stack
>> hackery because it wasn't portable anyway.  Before the ANS process
>> began, the number of return stack items pushed by a colon definition
>> wasn't always 1.  And maybe you'd even be using a different stack for
>> return addresses.
>
> This is mind boggling! Was that Forth? What is the percentage
> of such implementations from all Forth implementations?
>
>>  So maybe the R> DROP trick would work, maybe not.
>
> But this is not a trick. Is applying knowledge that on return-stack
> is the address of continuation(partial) of current definition caller.
>
>>
>> In that sense, the situation is not any different post-ANS: if you
>> want to depend on a colon definition pushing one item onto the return
>> stack you can still assume that.  ANS did not cause this trick to stop
>> working: it was descriptive rather than prescriptive.
>>
>>> Here's an example of a routine that deserves to be as efficient as
>>> it looks.
>>>
>>> : ?# ( ud -- ud )  #  2dup d0= if  r> drop  then ;
>>>
>>> : #,S ( ud -- 0 0 )  begin ?#  ?#  ?#  [char] , hold  again ;
>>
>> I hope that wouldn't pass review.
>
> This is a very nice factored code!
>
> What matter is idea behind code. User will modify  '?#'  definition
> accordingly with used Forth implementation, if necessary, or choose
> another Forth implementation.

Huh?  I didn't realize the idea of sharing code was so it could be 
modified to work.  I thought the idea of writing standard conforming 
code was to share without modification.  Heck, this is the sort of code 
that gives a language a bad name.

Another problem with it is compatibility with debuggers.  I don't 
normally use them, but setting a breakpoint anywhere after the first use 
of ?# would give confusing results when the code executes right past the 
breakpoint without stopping.  You would only figure out why if you dig 
into the underlying code.

The same thing would happen if you insert debugging statements.  I often 
do that and work from the top down to isolate the problem.  It is very 
distracting when you insert debugging statements and they aren't executed.

There is a reason why the idea of structured code was invented.

-- 

Rick C

Thread

Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 08:21 -0700
  Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 16:39 +0100
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 08:46 -0700
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 16:04 +0000
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 04:22 -0500
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-11 10:35 +0100
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 05:08 -0500
          Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 03:51 -0700
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 07:02 -0500
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 11:55 -0400
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 09:32 -0500
          Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 11:56 -0500
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 12:20 -0500
              Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 12:31 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 15:50 -0500
  Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 16:49 +0000
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 12:04 -0700
  Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 01:08 -0700
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-11 09:13 +0100
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 01:48 -0700
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-11 09:59 +0100
  Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-12 14:20 +0000
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 17:01 -0700
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 22:18 -0700
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 03:09 -0700
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-13 21:07 +1000
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-13 14:20 +0000
          Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-14 11:59 +1000
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-14 09:21 -0500
              Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 10:43 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-14 18:35 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-15 07:11 +0200
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 04:35 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 03:54 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? mhx@iae.nl - 2017-05-15 04:07 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 06:23 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 06:53 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 09:18 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 22:44 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 04:16 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 02:00 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 02:43 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-16 05:08 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-16 12:11 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? NN <november.nihal@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 05:24 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-17 07:35 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 14:59 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-17 13:30 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-15 11:09 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 21:17 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-15 07:13 +0200
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-16 10:24 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 01:13 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-16 12:26 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 01:58 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-17 16:45 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? obi65537@gmail.com - 2017-05-25 12:04 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-26 10:02 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-26 07:46 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-26 13:53 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-26 10:14 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-26 10:16 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 08:59 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-26 11:27 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 10:19 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-26 20:20 +0200
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 21:38 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-26 14:06 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 22:00 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-26 17:06 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? hum9 <obi65537@gmail.com> - 2017-05-27 01:15 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-28 14:17 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-27 17:40 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-24 15:46 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <obi65537@gmail.com> - 2017-05-25 11:51 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <obi65537@gmail.com> - 2017-05-25 20:38 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? obi65537@gmail.com - 2017-05-25 22:03 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? obi65537@gmail.com - 2017-05-25 22:09 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-26 21:56 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-26 13:30 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-27 15:04 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-27 17:33 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-29 12:17 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? hum9 <obi65537@gmail.com> - 2017-05-27 00:33 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-27 14:53 +1000
                READ-FILE over-specified? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-27 21:28 +1000
                Re: READ-FILE over-specified? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-27 13:11 +0000
                Re: READ-FILE over-specified? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-29 13:47 +1000
                Re: READ-FILE over-specified? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-28 09:44 +0200
                Re: READ-FILE over-specified? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-28 13:41 +0000
                Re: READ-FILE over-specified? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-28 19:59 +0200
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 09:42 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 09:53 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-16 04:53 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-16 12:32 +0200
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 12:35 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-16 10:48 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 18:23 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-17 04:33 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 12:29 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-16 10:28 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-16 10:43 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-16 16:34 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-16 12:41 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-17 16:14 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 03:05 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-18 16:33 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 12:43 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 04:01 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-18 15:41 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 11:58 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 22:57 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-17 00:32 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 15:53 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-15 05:29 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 23:00 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 12:27 -0400
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 09:16 +0000
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 09:55 +0000
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-13 14:25 +0000
          Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 07:49 -0700
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 09:59 +0000
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 12:22 +0000
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-13 14:19 +0000
  Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 23:23 -0700
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 00:10 -0700
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-15 09:35 +0000
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 00:54 -0700
      Return-address manipulation (was: Would ?EXIT ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-15 08:47 +0000
        Re: Return-address manipulation (was: Would ?EXIT ...) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-15 11:53 +0000
          Re: Return-address manipulation (was: Would ?EXIT ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-16 13:03 +0000
            Re: Return-address manipulation (was: Would ?EXIT ...) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 07:06 -0700
              Re: Return-address manipulation (was: Would ?EXIT ...) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 07:14 -0700
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-14 21:58 -1000
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-15 11:23 +0000

csiph-web