Re: Even more problems with lcc-win

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Even more problems with lcc-win
Date	2017-04-03 11:08 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<obt39n$3jh$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <IV5DA.211948$PU6.150214@fx13.am4> <obiti6$qpf$1@dont-email.me> <2R7DA.679006$vF2.481444@fx46.am4> <obj474$iml$1@dont-email.me> <pKLDA.487479$fZ.6744@fx41.am4>

Show all headers | View raw

On 01/04/17 12:59, bartc wrote:
> On 30/03/2017 15:23, David Brown wrote:
>> On 30/03/17 15:36, bartc wrote:
> 
> [On speed of compiling]
>>> (Or maybe gcc has hit on optimisations for this, of which I can think of
>>> several; I don't know.)
>>
>> It does have optimisations for that purpose, yes.
> 
> It seems to be then that, after all, you do appreciate the value of
> making certain things faster:
> 

At the risk of pointlessly repeating things I have said before, knowing
full well that you will not take them in - yes, I certainly /do/
appreciate when things go faster.  I like my compilation to go fast, and
it is always better when builds are faster than slower.

But I don't view speed of compilation as being the single important
factor for a compiler.  It is one of many factors, and it is far from
the top.  My position has always been that speed of compilation is /not/
the major issue when comparing compilers or considering tool quality.

And for what I do, for the most part, C compilation with gcc is fast
enough.  It is simply not a problem for me.  If it ran twice as fast, it
would not make any difference to the way I work or what I do - nor would
it make a difference if it took twice as long.  If it took 10 times as
long, it would be annoying in some of my projects.

Of course, there are other types of compilation where the speed /is/ an
issue.  If you are rebuilding the Linux kernel or doing other large
builds, things can never be fast enough.  I have done enough builds of
embedded Linux systems to be irritated by the time taken (especially for
your old favourites, autotools and autoconf, rather than the compiler
itself).  But I would not consider swapping gcc for a toy compiler with
a fraction of the features even there.

And for C++ compilation, speed is again relevant - most of the focus of
compilation speed is in the context of C++, not C.

> * Optimisations for processing duplicate C headers

Yes - it is a fine idea.  It saves compiler effort, with no effort on
the part of the programmer.  Most compilers (including gcc) implement a
"#pragma once" feature to make header inclusion faster - gcc (and
probably other compilers) optimise standard C include guards so that you
can get the same efficiency with standard C.

> 
> * Build optimisations by only compiling where necessary
> 

Of course.

That is part of the reason why the speed of compilation itself is not as
critical - it is only done when needed.

My makefiles use a gcc feature that generates dependency files
automatically, so that I am sure everything is compiled when necessary.

> * OS optimisations which can deal with efficiently with programs that
> make extensive use of files

That's just good OS design.

> 
> * Hardware optimisations in processors and in machine architecture which
> can make even compilers like gcc run as fast as possible
> 

I don't see what you mean here.  Are you saying there is something wrong
with picking a reasonably modern desktop PC for a development
workstation?  The "hardware optimisations" here are a solid amount of
memory, multiple cpu cores, fast processing, etc.  My main workstation
is about 6 years old, I think, and was fast but not extreme at the time
I got it.  (My home machine is about a year or so old, and is a bit faster.)

Do you think it would make more sense for me to compile natively on my
target systems?  If I have an embedded Linux system running at 800 MHz
with 512 MB ram, why would I compile on that rather than a 2.6 GHz
desktop with 12 GB ram?

> * All sorts of new optimisations in the code generation of compilers
> like gcc, not only to make arbitrary code run faster, but to compile gcc
> itself to make it run as fast as it does now

Are you now suggesting it is a bad idea for gcc binaries to be
optimised?  Or that it is somehow "cheating" if the compiler does a good
job of compiling itself?

> 
> All this has required an enormous amount of effort by people who
> considered that what they already had /wasn't quite fast enough/. And
> presumably you've benefited from the results.

As always, you have been far too interested in making meaningless
performance comparisons and complaining about things you don't
understand, rather than listening to what anyone else says.

gcc is so fast at compiling /my/ code that its speed is not an issue for
/me/.  Nowhere have I said its speed is not an issue for others, or that
it would not be a good thing to be faster.  What I have said is that /I/
don't care if it is faster - its speed is /good enough/ for /me/.  When
I choose a compiler for a project, I look at a number of factors.  Speed
of compilation is not one of them.

Similarly, the size of a toolchain installation is almost totally
irrelevant to me.  Despite having many more toolchains installed than
the average C developer (I keep each version I use, for each processor),
I couldn't care less whether a toolchain takes 5 MB or 500 MB of disk space.

I am fully aware that the reason gcc is fast enough for me is that other
people see its speed as more relevant.  But since I know a bit about how
gcc is developed, and you don't, I know that it is /not/ the speed of C
compilation that is the most important to the gcc developers - the speed
of C++ compilation is far more relevant.  (Of course, for many parts of
gcc, a speed increase in one language benefits the other language too.)

> 
> You also seem to appreciate that an OS like Linux can be lean,
> lightweight (if not quite to my standards) and faster than one like
> Windows. But I guess that doesn't apply to compilers!
> 

I have nothing against a compiler being "lean" - but I have a great deal
against judging a tool solely by how "lean" it is.  I am interested in
the efficiency of my development (that means features in the toolchain)
and the efficiency of my run-time binaries (that means optimisations in
the toolchain) - the efficiency of the tool that gets from A to B here
is of little relevance.

Similarly, when choosing an editor or IDE, I look for features that help
me do my work more efficiently.  As long as it works fast enough that it
does not slow me down, I don't care in the least how efficient the IDE
implementation is.  It makes /zero/ difference to me that eclipse takes
many 100 MB's of disk space, 1 GB of memory, and is written in an
interpreted language - it is utterly irrelevant that it would be
possible to write an IDE in 1 MB of space and 10 MB of ram.

> I just mention all this because you do seem scorn all my efforts along
> those lines:
> 
> DB:
>> Well, I presume you are having fun writing your compiler - because
>> otherwise I really cannot see the point of it.
> 
> Although my project isn't just about speed. It's also about making
> things small, simple and effortless.
> 

I scorn your obsession about speed of compilation as though it is the
only factor of relevance to anybody or anything.  And I scorn your
obsession about the size and number of header files, compiler source
files, and other files that few people ever look at.  And I scorn your
continuous insults on other people, their work, and their tools, as
"unmaintainable bloat" - simply because /you/ don't understand what they
have done or why they have done it.

Thread

Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-24 11:25 +0100
  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 11:04 +0000
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-24 11:44 +0000
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-24 12:59 +0100
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-24 14:06 +0000
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 13:01 +0100
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 12:39 +0000
          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 13:17 +0000
            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 13:38 +0000
              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 13:50 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 14:06 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 14:20 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 15:49 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:35 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 14:51 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2017-03-24 23:36 +0100
          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 15:43 +0100
            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 17:57 +0000
              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 18:13 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 18:32 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-24 12:11 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 19:56 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-24 13:48 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 21:17 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-24 22:40 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 21:56 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-25 01:14 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 01:19 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 01:30 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-25 12:46 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 20:10 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win gordonb.l3ybu@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-03-27 03:34 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 11:41 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win gordonb.15yss@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-03-27 14:48 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 13:31 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 22:22 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 15:05 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 23:22 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-28 00:35 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-16 19:09 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-21 21:01 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-21 12:33 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-21 21:44 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-21 13:37 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-27 13:03 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-21 13:15 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-21 13:35 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-21 15:30 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-21 18:44 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-22 21:08 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-23 10:26 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-23 19:08 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-23 14:26 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-23 16:52 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-23 16:31 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-23 20:42 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-23 22:32 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-04-24 13:37 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-27 07:13 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-27 07:54 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-27 18:20 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-30 14:23 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-30 18:18 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 12:12 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-01 11:14 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-01 13:29 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-27 16:00 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 13:24 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 15:20 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 16:50 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-28 09:28 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 19:45 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-28 12:06 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-28 20:14 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 20:24 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 21:33 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-28 13:10 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 22:15 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-29 13:23 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 21:29 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 20:47 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-28 22:46 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-28 23:46 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-29 00:53 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 02:00 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-29 05:05 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-29 10:57 -0400
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-29 17:06 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-29 08:39 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 18:29 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-28 23:44 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 12:33 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 08:54 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 17:38 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-29 16:42 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 10:28 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-29 20:09 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 13:29 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-30 13:18 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-30 08:22 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-30 00:20 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 15:38 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-30 13:19 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-28 18:29 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-29 01:36 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-29 22:36 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-29 23:50 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-30 10:57 +1300
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 15:10 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-30 11:15 +1300
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 09:22 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 18:50 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 09:31 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 10:26 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-30 13:23 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-30 12:01 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-02 13:51 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-02 23:04 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-03 17:45 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-03 22:09 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 23:24 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 15:52 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-30 12:26 +1300
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 12:00 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 12:43 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 13:38 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-30 14:21 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-31 04:30 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-31 09:39 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jadill33@gmail.com - 2017-03-30 07:12 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-30 12:10 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-29 13:25 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 14:55 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-29 16:11 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 16:40 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-29 18:14 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 18:32 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 20:53 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-21 00:36 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 05:41 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-24 15:14 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-04-26 14:02 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-26 16:04 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-27 12:24 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-27 14:43 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-29 23:21 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-29 23:58 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 11:10 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-30 00:09 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 01:51 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-30 01:58 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 12:24 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 14:29 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 14:36 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 16:23 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-01 11:59 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-01 14:41 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-03 11:08 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-03 12:02 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-03 14:32 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-03 14:40 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-03 16:47 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 16:56 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 18:06 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-07 20:02 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 19:49 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-08 13:26 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-08 13:33 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-08 16:27 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-08 22:28 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-09 13:54 +1200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 07:55 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-09 10:24 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-09 10:45 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-09 10:53 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-09 14:03 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-10 16:17 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-14 10:24 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-14 12:29 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-09 13:04 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 14:13 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-08 14:33 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-04-08 07:36 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-08 10:22 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-07 11:11 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 19:28 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-04-07 11:44 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-04-08 08:00 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 12:29 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-07 13:46 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-07 14:10 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-03-30 21:59 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-31 00:19 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win me <crisdunbar@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 17:53 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 11:34 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 12:35 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-30 04:38 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 13:14 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 14:38 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-31 08:52 +1300
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-02 13:58 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-02 17:02 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-04-03 17:50 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-03 23:10 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-03 07:20 +1200
                Optimized? (Was: Even more problems with lcc-win) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-04-02 19:39 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-04-02 15:59 -0400
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-02 14:11 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-03 17:08 +1200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-04-03 13:42 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 13:06 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 14:58 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 14:50 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 16:27 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 16:57 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-30 14:31 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-28 15:54 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-28 08:07 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win gordonb.uls6t@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-03-29 18:17 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 19:20 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-30 18:49 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-30 20:07 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win gordonb.b709o@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-04-16 03:45 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-04-16 16:34 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2017-04-16 20:27 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-16 12:16 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-17 02:29 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-27 19:01 -0400
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2017-03-25 21:45 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-25 23:19 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-25 19:10 -0400
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-26 00:54 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-25 19:48 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 05:12 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-26 14:00 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win gordonb.zdxct@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2017-03-27 02:03 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-24 22:39 -0500
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-25 09:13 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 11:24 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-26 08:42 +1300
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 19:51 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-26 09:10 +1300
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-25 20:24 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-25 13:43 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-26 10:30 +1300
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-03-26 10:23 +0200
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 15:08 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-24 22:43 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 15:55 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-24 16:27 -0700
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-25 01:17 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-25 01:18 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 15:06 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 16:37 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 16:25 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-27 17:57 +0000
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-03-27 19:12 +0100
                Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-27 14:19 -0500
              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 19:25 +0100
          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 08:10 -0700
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 13:01 +0000
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 15:50 +0100
  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 13:07 +0100
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-24 15:48 +0100
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 16:26 +0100
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:32 +0000
          Re: Even more problems with lcc-win James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-24 12:53 -0400
            Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-24 18:24 +0100
              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-03-24 17:29 +0000
              Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-24 10:55 -0700
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-24 10:47 -0700
  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-24 09:37 -0700
  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 15:07 -0500
  Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-29 09:56 -0700
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-29 10:39 -0700
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-29 12:22 -0700
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-29 15:10 -0700
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-29 16:58 -0700
    Re: Even more problems with Seed7 jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-30 01:02 +0200
      Re: Even more problems with Seed7 Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-30 01:05 -0500
        Re: Even more problems with Seed7 Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-30 01:19 -0500
          Re: Even more problems with Seed7 mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-04-02 04:19 -0700
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-30 00:34 -0700
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-30 13:05 +0200
      Re: Even more problems with lcc-win jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-03-31 00:00 +0200
        Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-04-02 00:28 -0700
    Re: Even more problems with lcc-win mertesthomas@gmail.com - 2017-03-30 00:50 -0700

csiph-web