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Re: Childhood's End

From wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr)
Newsgroups rec.arts.sf.written
Subject Re: Childhood's End
Date 2016-12-30 14:55 -0500
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <o46e44$p1l$1@panix3.panix.com> (permalink)
References <6zq0g7zr2wtj.6a9zgd3bcy1i.dlg@40tude.net> <o42vmv$lbv$1@panix3.panix.com> <4b8a6cpptpfr4ki509ie5n4pkuhc3mb9lj@4ax.com> <8ac9342c-d92a-41c8-9f73-95c19466b7f8@googlegroups.com>

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In article <8ac9342c-d92a-41c8-9f73-95c19466b7f8@googlegroups.com>,
Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> said:

> Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
>
>> I worry that there are people who *don't* see that those are
>> different things. It would explain why people come up with the
>> "but science is a religion too - checkmate, atheists!" rubbish.
>
> Well, I think they're different things, *and* I'm an atheist, and
> yet I think science is a religion.  Frankly, I don't think it's
> useful to define "religion" in a way that excludes "science",
> except that if your use for a definition of "religion" is to help
> you heap scorn upon religion, then yes, a definition that excludes
> "science" will be more helpful for *that*.

For me, a _necessary_ component of a religion is that it calls upon
its followers to believe woo-woo stuff that exists outside the realm
of the proveable or disproveable. E.g., God.

Science generally doesn't do that.

-- wds

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Re: Childhood's End mimus99 <mimus99@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 17:13 -0500
  Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-22 06:20 -0800
    Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-22 14:41 +0000
      Re: Childhood's End Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-12-22 17:53 +0000
        Re: Childhood's End Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-25 01:06 -0700
          Re: Childhood's End Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-12-25 17:49 +0000
      Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-23 12:31 -0800
      Re: Childhood's End David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-25 07:40 -0600
    Re: Childhood's End Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-12-22 06:57 -0800
      Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-22 16:11 +0000
        Re: Childhood's End news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley) - 2016-12-22 19:11 +0000
        Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-23 11:57 -0500
      Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 12:17 -0700
        Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-22 21:21 +0000
          Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 14:04 -0700
            Re: Childhood's End David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-25 07:44 -0600
        Re: Childhood's End Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-12-22 21:52 -0800
      Re: Childhood's End David Harmon <source@netcom.com> - 2016-12-25 09:30 -0800
        Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-25 20:48 +0000
          Re: Childhood's End "John F. Eldredge" <john@jfeldredge.com> - 2017-01-04 18:08 +0000
            Re: Childhood's End ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2017-01-04 18:50 +0000
    Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 10:29 -0700
      Re: Childhood's End Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2016-12-22 14:34 -0800
        Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 15:02 -0700
          Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-22 23:28 +0000
            Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 16:29 -0700
              Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-23 01:24 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 20:11 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-12-23 01:05 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 22:23 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-23 10:09 -0600
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-23 16:50 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-12-23 09:07 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-23 09:20 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-12-31 20:40 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2017-01-01 09:24 -0600
                Re: Childhood's End tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2017-01-02 12:38 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-23 12:08 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-23 09:22 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End "John F. Eldredge" <john@jfeldredge.com> - 2016-12-23 19:17 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-12-23 12:31 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-23 12:03 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-23 09:23 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-12-23 09:45 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-24 04:32 +0000
            Re: Childhood's End Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-25 01:13 -0700
              Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-25 15:03 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-25 08:02 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-25 20:51 +0000
    Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-22 11:31 -0700
      Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-23 12:29 -0800
        Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-23 14:23 -0700
          Re: Childhood's End Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-23 15:40 -0800
            Re: Childhood's End "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-24 09:09 -0500
              Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-24 07:33 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-24 11:01 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-24 08:56 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-12-24 17:01 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-24 10:11 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-26 11:20 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-26 14:06 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-26 16:00 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-26 22:36 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-27 16:08 +0200
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-27 12:06 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-27 13:05 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-27 18:32 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-27 19:42 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-27 21:21 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-28 08:28 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2017-01-01 09:15 -0600
                Re: Childhood's End Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-28 12:32 +0200
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-27 13:23 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-27 23:02 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-27 21:08 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-27 13:17 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-27 23:00 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-27 21:39 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 08:14 +0100
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-28 00:56 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 08:52 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-12-29 04:41 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 08:16 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-29 13:12 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 10:25 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-28 17:40 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-28 14:45 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-28 21:30 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-29 13:52 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-29 12:54 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-28 18:11 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2017-01-01 09:16 -0600
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2017-01-01 09:56 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-28 21:33 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 00:42 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-29 09:46 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-30 09:42 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-12-30 12:48 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-30 13:14 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-12-29 08:20 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-29 07:31 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-29 05:49 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-12-29 14:47 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-29 09:55 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-12-29 12:13 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-12-29 20:37 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-30 14:55 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-12-31 10:12 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-01-01 19:31 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2017-01-02 10:22 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2017-01-03 21:59 -0600
                Re: Childhood's End tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2017-01-03 21:33 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2017-01-03 22:13 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2017-01-04 00:46 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-04 02:02 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2017-01-04 02:39 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2017-01-04 11:29 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2017-01-06 20:42 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2017-01-07 00:01 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2017-01-07 10:57 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2017-01-07 19:08 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2017-01-07 15:46 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2017-01-07 05:53 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2017-01-07 20:43 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2017-01-01 12:17 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2017-01-02 13:20 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-29 09:49 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-12-29 20:41 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-29 12:26 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-12-30 12:50 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2017-01-01 09:21 -0600
                Re: Childhood's End Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com> - 2017-01-01 12:31 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-28 16:11 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-28 18:34 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-28 23:40 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-29 07:41 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-29 12:27 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-29 12:55 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-30 15:03 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-30 14:35 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-31 13:24 -0500
              Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-24 13:08 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-12-24 18:52 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-24 14:03 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-24 21:37 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-24 17:02 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-24 20:20 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-25 16:50 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-25 23:00 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-25 17:00 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-25 19:06 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-25 22:37 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-25 02:37 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-24 21:58 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-24 20:07 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-25 06:18 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-24 21:53 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-25 16:52 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-25 23:04 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-25 19:01 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-25 23:15 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-26 04:22 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-12-25 22:03 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-26 07:01 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-12-26 11:39 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-26 22:09 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-27 23:03 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-24 14:43 -0500
                Re: Childhood's End djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-24 21:36 +0000
                Re: Childhood's End Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-24 14:34 -0800
                Re: Childhood's End David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-24 15:43 -0700
                Re: Childhood's End "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-24 20:18 -0500
          Re: Childhood's End Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-12-24 09:48 +0000

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