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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #53449

Re: f.) for Gorth

From Alex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: f.) for Gorth
Date 2016-12-20 15:26 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <o3bigs$8vg$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <d9c0c746-b39a-4464-85c4-4e5b399294c4@googlegroups.com> <o38mlq$9db$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> <f7b15b6b-5693-4451-8029-a7059eb63bfd@googlegroups.com> <o39g4u$n27$1@dont-email.me> <932bc6cf-7c0b-4e88-af6f-aea4186f747d@googlegroups.com>

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On 12/20/2016 02:11, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 1:33:57 PM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
>> For someone who has already dismissed ANS Forth as useless, I am
>> amazed that you need to continue to tell everyone, at length and
>> every day, that it's grinding your gears. We get it. You can stop
>> now.
>
> Elizabeth Rather and her sycophants can stop claiming to be the
> leaders of the Forth community -- now would be a good time.

I've never seen anyone here claim such a thing. I suspect you don't like 
them disagreeing with you. It's not comp.lang.hugh though.

>
> The only way that Forth can succeed is for ANS-Forth to be defeated
> --- ANS-Forth was a steaming pile of salesmanship in 1994 and it
> continues to reek decades later --- it is time to press the flush
> lever and send ANS-Forth to its proper destination.

I see you've failed in your decades long mission then.

>
> In the 1980s the Forth enthusiasts did a lot of talk about how in
> Forth "anything is possible." The irony of this is that ANS-Forth
> came out in 1994 with a lot of ambiguity, meaning that almost any
> Forth implementation was ANS-Forth compliant, even if these
> implementations were contradictory to each other.

That's not logical. Please point out any two systems where they are ANS 
compliant yet "contradictory".

The more serious point here is that standards are almost always 
ambiguous since they are (largely) written in English. And many 
standards are written in the sure knowledge that they cover many 
implementations on different platforms, and that they may suffer from 
imprecision of specification as a result.

That's an acceptable outcome, since to have a standard few or none can 
meet is pointless. A good example of this is NFS. Here's the charter

----
The working group has found that as NFSv4 implementations mature and
deployments continue, clarifications to existing RFCs are needed.
These clarifications assist vendors in delivering quality and
interoperable implementations. The working group is chartered with
the vetting of the issues and determining correctness of submitted
errata.
----

NFS is hugely successful, and has seen off all other file protocols 
excepting Microsoft's proprietary SMB. There are hundreds (possibly 
thousands) of working client and server implementations, on a variety of 
platforms. But it's still not a perfect standard. It has ambiguities and 
errors.

ANS Forth works on the same principles; it is more important to codify 
running code that works than to propose and maintain some unattainable 
or restrictive definition, simply to satsify OCD sufferers like you that 
loathe untidy ambiguities.

>
> Now in 2016, despite the fact that "anything is possible," the
> Forth-200x committee are incapable of writing basic software. For
> example, they don't know how to convert floats into strings. VFX also
> has a bug in its outer-interpreter code that converts strings into
> floats. That is pathetic! I write Forth code that works correctly,

You don't. In fact, the statement is provably wrong; only last week you 
posted up a bug correction to your own code.

> but the Forth-200x committee ignores it because Elizabeth Rather says
> that I'm not a Forth programmer.That is pathetic! ANS-Forth and
> Forth-200x must be flushed if Forth is going to be taken seriously in
> the real world.
>

You're on a loser here. The real world (and the people in it, like me, 
Elizabeth and your huge cast of hate figures) will always fail to 
deliver to your satisfaction. The rest of us just get on with it, and 
make the effort to tidy up imperfect yet useful standards when there's a 
breakage that needs dealt with. And we do it without disagreeing with 
each other to the point where we sound like psychotic nutjobs.

-- 
Alex

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Thread

f.) for Gorth josv@planet.nl - 2016-12-06 03:40 -0800
  Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-06 15:48 +0100
  Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-06 17:59 +0000
    Re: f.) for Gorth josv@planet.nl - 2016-12-06 13:17 -0800
      Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-07 11:11 +0000
        Re: f.) for Gorth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-07 06:11 -0800
          Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-07 17:50 +0000
        Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-07 15:23 +0100
          Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-08 16:18 +0000
        Re: f.) for Gorth josv@planet.nl - 2016-12-07 06:46 -0800
          Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-07 17:41 +0000
  Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-06 10:34 -0800
    Re: f.) for Gorth josv@planet.nl - 2016-12-09 12:11 -0800
      Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-23 13:23 +1100
    Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-15 15:42 -0800
  Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-07 13:06 +1100
    Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-06 18:32 -0800
      Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-07 12:41 +0100
        Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-07 19:49 -0800
          Re: f.) for Gorth Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-12-08 08:12 +0000
            Re: f.) for Gorth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-12-08 18:53 -0500
              Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-09 00:01 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-09 12:17 +0100
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-09 13:01 +0000
              Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-09 11:19 +1100
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-08 22:23 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-09 07:11 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-20 22:40 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 23:59 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-21 21:17 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth The Beez <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 08:51 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-09 12:47 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-10 11:54 +1100
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-09 17:28 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-09 18:20 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-10 14:26 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth The Beez <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 09:14 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-13 19:24 +0100
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-14 07:29 -0600
                Re: f.) for Gorth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 18:29 +0100
                Re: f.) for Gorth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 10:13 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-15 03:45 -0600
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-15 10:42 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-15 05:11 -0600
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-15 12:36 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-15 07:33 -0600
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-15 14:31 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-15 14:34 -0600
                Re: f.) for Gorth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-15 16:20 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 16:46 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 09:23 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-19 02:56 -0600
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-16 08:10 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-16 10:00 -0600
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-18 10:32 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-19 03:22 -0600
                Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-16 14:14 +0100
                Re: f.) for Gorth Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-12-19 19:41 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-20 03:02 -0600
                Re: f.) for Gorth mhx@iae.nl - 2016-12-20 01:27 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-20 12:35 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Charles Montgomery <cgm@physics.utoledo.edu> - 2016-12-20 21:23 -0500
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-21 07:29 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Charles Montgomery <cgm@physics.utoledo.edu> - 2016-12-21 22:24 -0500
                Re: f.) for Gorth "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2016-12-22 08:10 -0500
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-22 17:39 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-15 12:53 +0100
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-15 05:59 -0600
                Re: f.) for Gorth "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-01-03 16:15 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-14 17:06 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-18 10:58 +1100
                Re: f.) for Gorth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-17 17:26 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-19 13:16 +1100
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-18 19:19 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth john <anon@example.com> - 2016-12-19 11:03 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 01:46 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth john <anon@example.com> - 2016-12-20 12:14 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-20 17:34 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-18 19:25 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-18 19:45 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-22 11:32 +1100
                Re: f.) for Gorth Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-01-03 19:33 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-03 22:13 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-04 23:03 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-06 22:52 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-07 22:45 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-07 17:23 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-08 09:13 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-08 17:10 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-09 10:22 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth stephen@mpeforth.com - 2017-01-08 07:00 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-20 14:09 +0200
                Re: f.) for Gorth Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-01-11 01:14 -0800
    Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-07 12:26 +0100
      Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-08 10:21 +1100
        Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-20 15:45 +0100
          Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-20 15:33 +0000
          Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-22 11:37 +1100
            Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-22 14:19 +0100
              Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-23 12:11 +1100
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-22 17:49 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-23 20:41 +1100
            Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-20 14:21 +0200
  Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-15 22:31 -0800
    Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-16 18:26 -0800
      Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-18 16:41 -0800
        Re: f.) for Gorth stephen@mpeforth.com - 2016-12-20 02:20 -0800
          Re: f.) for Gorth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-20 13:04 +0000
            Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-20 17:27 -0800
  Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-17 10:36 -0800
    Re: f.) for Gorth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 11:51 -0800
      Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-18 19:35 -0800
        Re: f.) for Gorth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-19 14:17 +0100
          Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-19 10:10 -0800
            Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-19 20:33 +0000
              Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-19 18:11 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 19:03 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-12-20 08:10 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-20 18:05 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth  -  what is a number? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2016-12-21 09:04 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-20 15:26 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-20 11:30 -0600
                Language stds (was Re: f.) for Gorth) Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-20 19:49 +0000
                Re: Language stds (was Re: f.) for Gorth) john <anon@example.com> - 2016-12-20 20:06 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-20 17:52 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-21 13:47 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-21 20:46 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-22 14:33 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-22 07:06 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 07:21 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-12-23 07:41 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-23 08:33 +0000
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-23 18:22 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-23 20:28 -0800
                Re: f.) for Gorth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-26 18:30 -0800
                Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-24 12:12 +1100
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-24 03:28 -0600
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-12-24 10:02 -0600
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-24 16:13 -0800
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-24 18:13 +0000
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-28 09:24 +1100
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-12-27 17:10 -0600
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-27 22:58 -0800
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-29 10:12 +1100
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-12-29 17:03 -0800
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-29 19:35 -0800
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-12-30 05:27 -0800
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-30 19:11 -0800
                Re: Language stds (Re: f.) for Gorth) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-31 06:42 -0800

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