Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar

From	jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar
Date	2016-11-19 01:16 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<o0o5kd$6om$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <o0m9qk$ihv$1@dont-email.me> <o0mlti$mr3$1@dont-email.me> <o0mrda$art$1@dont-email.me> <o0mt38$gmj$1@dont-email.me> <o0n0jf$th5$1@dont-email.me>

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Le 18/11/2016 à 14:44, David Brown a écrit :
> If you want to understand how it works, you are expected to study the
> source code.

Yes, I know. I have done that but it is very difficult. For instance I 
had to integrate lcc within the gcc exception handling environment.


No docs, just the raw code. Feasible, yes. It took me months of effort 
to disassemble that C code, that is generating instructions for a 
virtual machine that will go up the stack at run time.

I just wanted that the machine goes through my code since C has no 
try/catch. But it was a challenge to figure out, since the documentation 
of that machine (the dwarf standard) has been modified in the code 
without any comments.

That, and the fact that the optimizations frenzy of the team led them to 
put optimizations in the assembler that compacted the code so that my 
generated opcodes were transformed into something else by an assembler 
geared to unknown gcc specs.

Great.

And I figured out. Imagine. I couldn't believe it when I finished and my 
example code went up through my lcc code and found the catch in a higher 
layer of C++.

Understanding gcc's code is feasible. But it would be better with docs. 
It is actually not the difficulty of the thing itself (just generating 
something for a vm is not difficult), but that the the specs of the vm 
must be read from raw C code and not written anywhere was kind of 
frustrating experience.

I asked for help and received none. People working with gcc are busy 
guys, and they do not answer too many questions, in any case at this 
level. I fear that most of the team actually doesn't even know what is 
going on exactly with catch/throw/stack unwinding because as soon as "it 
works" people are exhausted and do not document anything.

As I did, I was happy when it worked but felt an irresistible urge to 
forget that as soon as I could.

Thread

Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 03:07 -0800
  Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-08 13:25 +0100
    Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 05:47 -0800
      Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-08 21:03 +0100
        Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 12:10 -0800
          Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-08 21:17 +0100
            Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 13:27 -0800
              Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-09 11:19 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-09 03:00 -0800
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-09 09:04 -0800
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-09 09:57 -0800
  Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 05:16 -0800
    Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-08 06:22 -0800
      Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 06:52 -0800
        Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 07:08 -0800
          Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-08 07:47 -0800
      Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 08:13 -0800
        Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 08:48 -0800
        Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-17 03:21 -0800
  Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 22:16 +0800
    Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 08:00 -0800
      Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-09 00:13 +0800
        Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-08 08:41 -0800
          Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 08:50 -0800
            Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-11-08 17:10 +0000
  Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-08 19:06 +0100
  Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Andreas <nospam@invalid.invalid> - 2016-11-08 21:43 +0100
  Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-11-10 12:29 -0800
    Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-11 02:35 -0800
    Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-11 10:43 +0000
      Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-17 20:15 +0100
        Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-17 11:59 -0800
          Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-17 22:27 +0100
            Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-17 22:45 +0100
            Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-17 14:28 -0800
              Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-18 00:13 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-17 15:37 -0800
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 09:29 +0000
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-18 21:59 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 21:14 +0000
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-18 22:38 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-18 11:26 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-11-18 08:56 -0800
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-18 08:16 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-18 11:42 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-18 13:16 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-18 12:23 +0000
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-18 14:28 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-18 14:24 +0000
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-11-18 14:34 +0000
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-18 14:37 +0000
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 14:38 +0000
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-18 15:47 +0100
                [OT] Linux and Firefox "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 22:50 +0800
                Re: Window$ and Firefox "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 22:51 +0800
                Re: taskkill "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 22:52 +0800
                Re: taskkill David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-18 16:44 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-18 15:11 +0000
                Re: Who cares (about Window$)? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 23:24 +0800
                Re: Who cares (about Window$)? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-18 16:41 +0100
                Re: Who cares (about Window$)? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-11-18 16:45 +0100
                Re: Who cares (about Window$)? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-18 17:35 +0100
                Re: Who cares (about Window$)? Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2016-11-18 13:10 -0400
                Re: Who cares (about Window$)? Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2016-11-18 18:29 +0000
                Re: Who cares (about Window$)? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-11-18 11:49 -0800
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-11-18 11:42 -0800
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-19 20:37 +0000
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 12:34 +0000
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-18 13:46 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-18 13:44 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-18 14:44 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-19 01:16 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-19 15:43 +0100
                Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-19 18:13 +0100
            Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-11-18 00:16 +0000
              Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-11-18 09:25 +0100
          Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-11-18 18:15 +0000
            Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 19:18 +0000
        Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-11-18 08:20 +0100
  Re: Experimental languages/features for C or similar "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 20:36 +0800

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