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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #52604
| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: I'm so conflicted... |
| Date | 2016-11-13 23:14 -0500 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <o0bdmp$gom$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <a297b73d-10aa-407a-aef9-be3436e0ad83@googlegroups.com> <o07ock$c4k$1@dont-email.me> <fb41dc1f-3e7f-4553-8c14-e209d3f56437@googlegroups.com> <o08pjv$dqj$2@dont-email.me> <27cd21f3-bf17-4f81-9cd2-d78d33343a5d@googlegroups.com> |
On 11/13/2016 9:16 PM, Howerd wrote: > On Sunday, 13 November 2016 05:19:44 UTC+1, rickman wrote: >> On 11/12/2016 2:55 PM, Howerd wrote: >>> On Saturday, 12 November 2016 19:52:35 UTC+1, rickman wrote: >>>> On 11/12/2016 1:32 PM, Howerd wrote: >>>>> On Saturday, 12 November 2016 02:02:40 UTC+1, rickman wrote: >>>>>> On 11/11/2016 8:29 AM, Howerd wrote: >>>>>>> On Friday, 11 November 2016 12:47:20 UTC+1, Mark Wills wrote: >>>>>>>> Forth: You're in control. Everything is global. The system assumes >>>>>>>> you're not an idiot. And I love it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Python: You're in control. Everything is global. The system assumes >>>>>>>> you're not an idiot. I hate it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And I don't know why! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aggggh! :-/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With Python the system assumes that you are not an idiot, but that you are very busy, so you will use libraries written by someone else. If you want to see what is in the libraries the source is there, but do you really have the time? >>>>>>> Your job is to find and use exactly the right library - nothing to do with programming. >>>>>>> When you have found your perfect library your job is to write wrapper code to call it from your program - also not really programming. >>>>>>> Then you run your program. Job done. >>>>>> >>>>>> I find it amusing what programmers think programming is, or is not. >>>>>> What is wrong with using libraries for the grunt work and writing the >>>>>> "real" code that makes the application do what is needed? Why is that >>>>>> not "programming"? >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds a bit arrogant. "If they aren't programming the way I >>>>>> program, it isn't programming". >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Rick C >>>>> >>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>> >>>>> When I wrote "also not really programming" I was thinking only of what I have done when I use Python to get a specific job done compared to what I do when I program in Forth - I was not comparing what I do to what others may or may not do - sorry if I didn't make that clear. >>>>> For me they are two completely different mindsets. >>>> >>>> I can't say I understand your definition of "programming". Why is >>>> writing code using a library or libraries not programming? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Rick C >>> >>> Hi Rick, >>> >>> OK, it is programming, just a different type of programming :-) >> >> I still have no idea what you mean. I use libraries all the time when I >> program... or whatever it is that I do. If you don't wish to explain >> it, fine. But I don't really know what you are trying to say. >> >> -- >> >> Rick C > > Hi Rick, > > I would like very much to explain, but I think it is an experiential thing, and so is not easy to describe. > > Each programming language-plus-IDE has its own feel : > > colorForth - like free-climbing, dangling from small but strong hand holds over a short drop onto cardboard boxes. > > SwiftForth Windows - trying to steer an elephant (Windows) through a Marakesh bazaar, in order to buy a shiny new lamp. > > polyForth - steering a dune-buggy over sand dunes, because its fun - you will get to the BBQ before anyone else anyway. > > C+Eclipse - trying to drive a herd of cats through a cat-flap using trained bees to cajole them. > > Python - building a pyramid out of 50 cm cubes, each containing something, not sure what, its the size and shape of the box that are important. Don't build it too high though, or the lower layers may collapse. Then again, they might be OK... > > I drank too much coffee today, its late, so please forgive the train of consciousness ramblings... > > Is this any clearer now? I thought not ;-) > > Back to planet earth for a second : I was intrigued by Mark's original comment, about not liking Python and liking Forth - they seem similar in many respects, but really they are not. If you can't explain what you mean, to me that shows you don't really understand it. I realized this when I was in college. I sometimes had professors who couldn't explain a particular detail. That showed me they didn't really understand that aspect of the topic. -- Rick C
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I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-11 03:47 -0800
I'm so conflicted... foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-11-11 04:37 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-11 05:29 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-11-11 05:33 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-11-11 05:35 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-11 20:02 -0500
Re: I'm so conflicted... jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-12 10:59 +0000
Re: I'm so conflicted... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-12 11:21 -0500
Re: I'm so conflicted... jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-12 21:30 +0000
Re: I'm so conflicted... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-12 23:18 -0500
Re: I'm so conflicted... jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-13 12:28 +0000
Re: I'm so conflicted... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-13 10:50 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-13 19:14 +0000
Re: I'm so conflicted... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-13 23:11 -0500
Re: I'm so conflicted... jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-14 09:44 +0000
Re: I'm so conflicted... "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2016-11-20 01:51 +0000
Re: I'm so conflicted... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-12 10:32 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-12 13:52 -0500
Re: I'm so conflicted... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-12 11:55 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-12 23:19 -0500
Re: I'm so conflicted... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-13 18:16 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-13 23:14 -0500
Re: I'm so conflicted... jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-11-14 09:51 +0000
Re: I'm so conflicted... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-14 04:04 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 03:11 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2016-11-20 23:50 +0000
Re: I'm so conflicted... albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-12 20:11 +0100
Re: I'm so conflicted... "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-12 00:34 +1100
Re: I'm so conflicted... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-11 16:19 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-12 10:34 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... november.nihal@gmail.com - 2016-11-12 12:35 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-12 11:46 -1000
Re: I'm so conflicted... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-12 15:23 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-12 18:13 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-11-12 23:23 -0500
Re: I'm so conflicted... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-12 20:55 -1000
Re: I'm so conflicted... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-12 20:46 -1000
Re: I'm so conflicted... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-13 01:06 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2016-11-13 12:59 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-13 18:27 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2016-11-13 20:34 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-13 17:56 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-14 14:53 +1100
Re: I'm so conflicted... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-11-13 22:04 -1000
Re: I'm so conflicted... albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-13 10:51 +0100
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 03:10 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-15 01:03 +1100
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 07:31 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-11-14 13:29 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 03:02 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-15 13:39 +0100
Re: I'm so conflicted... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-15 18:22 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-16 01:32 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-16 13:00 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-16 13:04 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-16 13:42 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-17 12:28 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-11-17 22:14 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-19 15:01 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-19 16:55 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 10:36 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 10:43 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-20 11:15 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 13:57 -0800
Re: I'm so conflicted... Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-11-28 13:26 -0500
Re: I'm so conflicted... Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2016-11-16 10:25 +0000
Re: I'm so conflicted... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-16 12:33 -0800
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