Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #394854

Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'.

From	HGW <hw@....>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'.
Date	2016-10-05 09:14 +1100
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<nt19kt$kvd$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(21 earlier) <0dqdnbtM-rODCG3KnZ2dnUU7_81g4p2d@giganews.com> <cc56fd70-9290-408c-90da-f46a5dc0929c@googlegroups.com> <68aa1fb0-279a-489c-9f6b-58ba235683fa@googlegroups.com> <nss1mj$5cd$1@gioia.aioe.org> <a827116c-26db-4e1d-bc3e-764393ca6a5e@googlegroups.com>

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On 04/10/16 05:05, alsor@interia.pl wrote:
> W dniu poniedziałek, 3 października 2016 00:28:39 UTC+2 użytkownik HGWilson, DSc. napisał:
>> On 03/10/16 02:33, alsor@interia.pl wrote:
>>> W dniu niedziela, 2 października 2016 17:27:53 UTC+2 użytkownik kenseto napisał:
>>>> On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 1:03:32 AM UTC-4, tjrob137 wrote:
>>
>>>>>> But in the past you said that the OWLS never been measured directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. But I have said many times that measurements of OWLS have large errorbars,
>>>>> and that the value they measure depends DIRECTLY on how the clocks are
>>>>> synchronized.
>>>>
>>>> So can you give references that show OWLS have been measured directly?
>>>
>>> The Sagnac's setup measures one-way speed directly..
>>> therefore the result is correct: c +/- v.
>>
>> Not really. It just proves that wavelength is absolute.
>> I think you mean the MMX.
>
> In the MM type measurement you measure the two-way speed,
> which is const, due to the contraction along the velocity vector v,
> which is constant: v = const;
> t1 = t2 for any configuration.

The MM COMPARED two speeds. It proved they didn't change....which should 
have been obvious because light moves at c relative to its source.

> But in the case of the Sagnac, you can measure a one-way speeds
> difference, because any rotating body is still stationary:
> the whole path length is preserved: L' = L,
> it's independent of a frame!
>
> thus finally you get: dt = L/c-v - L/c+v <> 0.
>
> In the MM: dt = L'/c-v - L''/c+v = 0;
> L' = L(f) - the length depends on the angle...
>
> the actual length is something like this:
> L(f) = L * sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)/(1-(v/c sinf)^2)
>
> f =  0: L( 0) = L sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)/1 = L/gamma; it's contracted.
> f = 90: L(90) = L (1-v^2/c^2)^0.5/... = L; the perpendicular arm is not contracted at all.

Stop quoting aether theory. There is no aether. The Sagnac effect has 
nothing to do with the MMX experiment.
Here is the correct analysis of the Sagnac effect:

www.scisite.info/ringgyro.html

>


--

Thread

Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-22 12:07 +1000
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-22 13:42 +1000
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-22 14:56 +1000
      Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-23 13:09 +1000
        Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-24 09:23 +1000
          Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-24 17:19 +1000
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-24 04:01 -0700
              Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-24 22:07 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 13:01 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 05:53 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 15:35 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-24 15:48 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-25 17:44 +1000
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-24 22:04 +1000
              Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-24 22:12 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 06:13 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 15:37 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-25 11:55 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-27 12:43 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-27 20:23 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-27 22:25 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-28 06:39 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-28 11:38 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-28 14:18 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-28 15:18 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-29 02:47 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-29 09:25 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-29 20:34 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-30 09:41 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-30 00:06 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-30 04:10 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-30 04:21 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-30 13:04 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-30 11:48 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-01 08:13 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 15:52 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-02 08:24 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 09:52 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-02 00:03 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-02 18:07 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-02 08:27 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-02 08:33 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-03 09:28 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-03 11:05 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-05 09:14 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-04 17:23 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-10-05 09:36 +0200
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-06 09:00 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-10-06 09:08 +0200
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-10-03 08:51 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-03 10:39 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 09:53 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-06 20:26 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 09:44 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-06 10:54 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 12:57 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-06 11:09 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 13:45 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-07 05:58 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 08:18 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-07 09:39 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 12:07 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-08 06:18 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-08 15:07 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-07 10:20 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 11:10 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 13:44 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 13:45 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-06 11:57 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-29 06:08 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 19:10 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 07:26 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-30 09:10 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-30 08:27 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-28 10:14 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-28 13:32 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-28 13:44 -0700
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 07:20 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 07:32 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 08:13 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 08:42 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 10:04 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 10:44 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 13:28 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-29 15:26 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-29 02:29 +0000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-29 20:51 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-30 03:13 +0000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-03 09:23 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-10-03 05:57 +0000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-02 09:53 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-01 16:22 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-02 18:09 +1100
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-05 09:16 +1100
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-05 08:07 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-06 11:54 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-06 11:08 -0700
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-10-18 09:25 +1100
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 16:10 -0700
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-10-19 06:38 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-10-20 03:16 +1100
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-10-05 18:16 -0700
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-25 03:21 +0000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-25 19:28 +1000
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-26 19:44 +1000
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-25 14:52 +0200
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                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-27 03:25 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-26 11:03 -0700
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              Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-25 09:59 +0200
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-21 23:13 -0700
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 07:13 +0200
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-22 20:03 +1000
      Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 13:41 +0200
        Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-23 05:58 +1000
          Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 15:13 -0500
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-23 07:04 +1000
              Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 07:02 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-24 09:30 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 12:47 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 06:16 +1000
          Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 09:04 +0200
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-24 09:32 +1000
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2016-09-22 07:37 +0200
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-22 20:01 +1000
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 04:27 -0700
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 16:56 -0700
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-24 22:11 +1000
      Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 13:04 -0500
        Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 06:25 +1000
          Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 16:31 -0500
            Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-27 03:28 +1000
              Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 06:11 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-28 06:51 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 17:03 -0500
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-28 11:14 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-27 19:23 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-28 14:20 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-28 04:31 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-29 20:59 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 05:48 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-30 09:14 +1000
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-29 19:58 -0700
                Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-28 05:05 -0700
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. alsor@interia.pl - 2016-09-24 10:45 -0700
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-25 06:30 +1000
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 02:32 -0700
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 13:31 +0200
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-09-26 05:46 -0700
    Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. Python <python@org.invalid> - 2016-09-26 15:21 +0200
  Re: Question For Relativity 'Experts'. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-10-07 15:05 -0700

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