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Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 13:04:00 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>>I hope your wrist is feeling better (did you fall off a rooftop installing 
>>antennas over there in Santa Cruz? I thought you gave all that up!).
> 
> I tripped over a broken concrete walkway at a customers while doing my
> best to not pay attention.  I came down on my knees and wrists.  Some
> skin missing from the knees, stiff knee muscles, and sprained wrists.
> I was recovered enough yesterday to get talked into helping move a hot
> tub.  Now, I feel worse.  The wrists are sufficiently healed that I
> can now function without a pain killer.  I think I'll live.

Wow. Sorry about that fall. I saw your pictures, and you're in decent shape
for an old guy like me. (You were wearing army stuff from the army-navy
store.)

I hope you heal soon. 

> Wireless client(s) talking to cell phone.  The wireless client radio
> is a bridge between ethernet and wi-fi.
> The soft access point in the cell phone bridges wi-fi to the data
> modem in the cell phone, which is another bridge. 
> Every hop along the way is bridging, usually with MAC addresses
> involved.

Jeff - since there is a "soft access point" on both iOS and Android phones,
does that mean that this soft AP SSID/BSSID/SS & GPS location is sent to
Google by all those poorly configured Android devices?

> That wasn't your original question.  However, I can easily answer
> that.  Google got into trouble because they were also sniffing and
> storing the Wi-Fi payload.  Google believes that it is entitled to
> collect any data that is does not constitute user information, which
> is loosly known as metadata.  Worst case is that it might not record
> your credit card number sniffed during drive by, but might record the
> time and date when a credit card was used.  Less extreme might be
> Google recording when and from whom something was purchased, but not
> what was purchased.  The dividing line between acceptable data
> collection and the invasion of privacy is a moving target.  I had
> hoped that the courts would have settled the matter by now, but that's
> hardly the case.

Jeff - you're apparently talking about the Google vehicle that drives along
all the roads in the United States. I'm *not* talking about that WiFi
collection vehicle.

I'm talking about the fact that almost all Android cellphones are poorly
configured in that *they* are collecting the SSID/BSSID/SS of all access
points, and sending that, plus the current GPS location to Google many
times a day.

It's already discussed on *many* web sites.
Winston supplied three of them already:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/11/where-have-you-been-your-smartphones-wi-fi-is-telling-everyone/
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-google-and-everyone-else-gets-wi-fi-location-data/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/22/google_android_privacy_concerns/

So we're *only* talking about what data the poorly configured Android
cellphones provide to Google many times a day for all the iOS and Android
phones it encounters.

> "We want you to understand what data we collect and use."
> <https://privacy.google.com/your-data.html>
> Hmmm... doesn't mention wireless sniffing because Google has announced
> that it no longer collects wifi data:
> <http://www.pcworld.com/article/196372/google_privacy.html>
> <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2292624/Google-hit-7M-fine-wifi-snooping-Street-View-cars-intercepted-emails.html>
> Note that metadata and data are quite different.

That's for the car.
We're talking about poorly configured Android cellphones collecting this
data.
See the URLs from Winston for details.
They're titled:
1. Where▔e you been? Your smartphone┬ Wi-Fi is telling everyone.
2. How Google--and everyone else--gets Wi-Fi location data
3. Google location tracking can invade privacy

> Gotta run.  I'll attack the rest later (time permitting).  I can
> explain how wi-fi works, but I can't explain every detail of how
> Google collects wireless data.  It would be helpful if you actually
> asked a question.  Tacking a question mark on an assertion is
> difficult to decode.

Hi Jeff,

I realize you always try to help, and that you provide details, which is
expensive in costs of energy and time.

I read *everything* you write, but I don't always understand everything you
write.

However, the *only* question that matters is under what circumstances is an
iOS or Android cellphone's SSID/BSSID/SS and GPS location *reported* to
Google databases by poorly configured Android cellphones.

I *think* the answer is that this happens *only* when the iOS or Android
cellphone is configured to act as an *access point*. 

I'm just trying to confirm that setting up an iOS or Android phone as an
access point is the *only* situation where an iOS or Android cellphone is
reported to the Google API that collects the SSID, BSSID, Signal Strength,
and GPS location from a nearby poorly configured Android device.

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Thread

How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 06:00 +0000
  Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-13 15:34 +0200
    Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 16:06 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-14 00:20 +0200
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:41 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-09-14 00:27 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:41 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-14 07:35 +0100
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-14 07:54 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-09-15 11:53 +0100
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet pamela <invalid@nospam.com> - 2016-09-17 14:28 +0100
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-09-17 21:30 +0100
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-15 08:45 -0700
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-15 08:51 -0700
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:30 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 18:43 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-16 20:08 +0100
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-17 09:17 +0100
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-17 17:27 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 02:12 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-19 15:42 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-19 16:33 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-19 17:42 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-19 18:41 +0100
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-20 03:21 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-16 13:04 -0700
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 20:23 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-15 08:31 -0700
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-15 09:49 -0700
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:33 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-19 19:22 +0200
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:30 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-16 13:16 -0700
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 04:52 +0000
  Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-09-14 00:24 +0000
    Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:40 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet bruce <bruce@invalid.dyndns.tv.invalid> - 2016-09-14 18:41 -0400
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:56 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet bruce <bruce@invalid.dyndns.tv.invalid> - 2016-09-17 16:12 -0400
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Winston <wbe@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> - 2016-09-17 19:04 -0400
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:43 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 02:30 +0000
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-17 22:54 -0400
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:43 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Winston <wbe@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> - 2016-09-15 01:04 -0400
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 23:17 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 23:36 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 01:59 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 01:59 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-16 22:22 -0700
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 06:17 +0000
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 06:32 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-17 10:08 -0400
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-09-17 16:13 +0200
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:43 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:49 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 04:00 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 01:59 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 02:00 +0000

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