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Groups > comp.mobile.android > #34296

Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet

From Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Newsgroups comp.mobile.android, alt.internet.wireless, alt.os.linux
Subject Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet
Date 2016-09-16 18:43 +0000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <nrheha$hb$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <nr84lg$1sfk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <2sblad-pcn.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <nr986l$1tso$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nra5ha$fu0$2@dont-email.me> <eofltb11q3hjdkbmq18oor7tsb0vmv2a1i@4ax.com>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 08:45:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Yes.  I beg to differ.  ALL (and I do mean ALL) 802.11 bridging is
> done on Layer 2 (MAC layer) and does not involve IP addresses or
> magic. 

Hi Jeff,
I'm only going to respond to you, and not to the many trolls who can't even 
understand the question, and have never added value to *any* thread ever 
(namely, Andy Burns, Frank Slootweg and Kerr-Mudd John, et al.) since you 
are the only one here who both understands what I'm asking and who knows 
more than I do about what I'm 
asking.

I hope your wrist is feeling better (did you fall off a rooftop installing 
antennas over there in Santa Cruz? I thought you gave all that up!).

> In order for an infrastructure client radio (laptop,
> smartphone, media gizmo, etc) to know how to get it's packets to the
> central access point, it uses a table of MAC addresses to define a
> route. 

I am not sure if it's germane to the question, but to understand what 
you're saying, it's that the TCP/UDP *packet* contains the MAC address of 
the cellphone 2.4 GHz or 5GHZ WiFi connection (whichever is being used in 
the WiFI connection).

> That means that every wireless device has to know the MAC
> address of every other wireless device and certainly that of the
> cental access point. 

Again, I'm not sure if the packet contents are germane to the question, 
but, certainly I see that you're saying the MAC address of the 2.4GHz or 
5GHz radio inside the cellphone is *known* to any access point that this 
cellphone communicates with.

Likewise, if the cellphone is acting as an *access point*, it must 
communicate its BSSID (aka MAC address) to any device that *wants to* 
connect to that access point. Right?

> Since the headers containing the MAC address are
> NOT encrypted, they are easily extracted.

I appreciate your detail, Jeff, as you're always very detailed.
I certainly agree that the MAC address of the cellphone 2.4GHz and 5Ghz 
radios is known to any access point that this cellphone connects to, and 
anyone who sniffs the air can also sniff out that MAC address.

But, I'm specifically asking about a specific process that Google 
implemnted in Android cellphones whereby most people (not me, but most 
people) have their cellphones set to hand over to google many times a day 
all the SSID/MAC/GPS/Signal Strength, etc., information that these poorly 
configured cellphones can hand to google.

> or monitor program and sniff some encrypted traffic.  You won't see
> inside encrypted payloads, but you'll certainly see all kinds of MAC
> addresses (including those from software access points) extracted from
> the headers.

I thank you Jeff for the details, as you are one of the few people here who 
back up what you say - but my specific question is all about Google.

It is well known that most Android phones (not mine but most others) are 
set up to send to Google periodically all the SSID/BSSID/SignalStrength 
information the phones see, along with GPS information, of all access 
points that these poorly configured phones encounter.

Specifically, that means my own dumb neighbors, plus all the idiots who 
drive by my house, are sending to Google "my" SSID/BSSID/SignalStrength/ 
and their GPS location, periodically during the day.

Even though "I" have _nomap on my SSID, the information is *still sent* to 
Google (Google simply promises to not put that information into its public 
database).

To access this public database, it is well known that you only need to know 
three things (the penultimte being added simply for security reasons):
1. The MAC address you seek
2. Another MAC address that is known to be nearby
3. The signal strength

If you hand that information to the Google publid databsae (the second only 
having been added for security purposes), Google will hand you back the 
*gps location* of those two MAC addresses, if they are in close proximity.

Given that, it would be easy to track a specific cellphone *if* that 
cellphone broadcasts its MAC address such as to be included in the Google 
API.

What would I have to do, for example, to make my cellphone broadcast its 
MAC address such that one of those poorly configured Android phones (which 
is almost all Android devices out there) would *think* my cellphone is an 
Access Point - and hence it would send Google that SSID/MAC/SS and it's GPS 
location for inclusion in the Google public database?

That question is key, because if my cellphone MAC is included in that 
Google database, it can be tracked.

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Thread

How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 06:00 +0000
  Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-13 15:34 +0200
    Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 16:06 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-14 00:20 +0200
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:41 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-09-14 00:27 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:41 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-14 07:35 +0100
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-14 07:54 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-09-15 11:53 +0100
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet pamela <invalid@nospam.com> - 2016-09-17 14:28 +0100
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-09-17 21:30 +0100
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-15 08:45 -0700
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-15 08:51 -0700
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:30 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 18:43 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-16 20:08 +0100
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-17 09:17 +0100
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-17 17:27 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 02:12 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-19 15:42 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-19 16:33 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-19 17:42 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-19 18:41 +0100
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-20 03:21 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-16 13:04 -0700
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 20:23 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-15 08:31 -0700
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-15 09:49 -0700
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:33 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-19 19:22 +0200
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:30 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-16 13:16 -0700
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 04:52 +0000
  Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-09-14 00:24 +0000
    Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:40 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet bruce <bruce@invalid.dyndns.tv.invalid> - 2016-09-14 18:41 -0400
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:56 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet bruce <bruce@invalid.dyndns.tv.invalid> - 2016-09-17 16:12 -0400
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Winston <wbe@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> - 2016-09-17 19:04 -0400
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:43 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 02:30 +0000
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-17 22:54 -0400
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:43 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Winston <wbe@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> - 2016-09-15 01:04 -0400
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 23:17 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 23:36 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 01:59 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 01:59 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-16 22:22 -0700
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 06:17 +0000
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 06:32 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-17 10:08 -0400
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-09-17 16:13 +0200
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:43 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:49 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 04:00 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 01:59 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 02:00 +0000

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