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Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces

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On 6/2/2016 12:22 PM, ClutterFreak wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 10:38:23 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>>
>> As for PhDs, I know a few who are working outside the realm of their
>> doctoral work. From what I understand, PhDs are often recognized for
>> being self-driven, able to quickly come up to speed on subjects they
>> aren't familiar with, highly analytical problem-solvers, good at
>> collaboration and communication, and having a number of ancillary skills
>> that can be applied broadly -- all traits that are prized in the
>> marketplace.
>>
>
> Of course. Ideal entry level employees for tough jobs
> in large companies who aren't too greedy. The greedier
> ones opt for someone who's had similar jobs for years
> with nice record to show. But what about pay?
>
> In USA the pay, in almost all cases, is not
> proportional to the amount of time and effort the
> holder of a PhD has put in. I believe if someone is
> interested in spending 10 years of his best time of
> life in university then he must at least choose a
> subject that later would bring in a lot of money, like
> a medical field. Physics PhD in USA will get you a job
> making very modest amount of money doing someone
> else's projects and ideas, not your own. It is not
> worth it.
>
> In my school, department, center, I saw that just
> about anybody who got his or her PhD became "data
> analyzer". It didn't need a PhD at all. A 4 year
> engineering degree would've more than sufficed to get
> such jobs. A couple of them taught college and were
> always in need of money. Something was wrong.
> --
>     "Wall Banger: A kiky headbanging rock&roller
>      with/or without drugs."
> 	
> 	              - Simon Beik


I'm not sure what department you come from that so many PhDs ended up in 
jobs below their training level. This to me smacks of either a field of 
study or a university that has no capacity gating sensibilities, where 
they take on as many grad students (cheap labor) as want to come and 
then leave them to the wolves of a saturated labor market.

To be sure, I know that there are many departments (like history or 
classical studies or theology or philosophy) where PhDs really can only 
go into academia and the number of jobs are abysmally (and rightfully) low.

But I do not agree that salaries should be based on effort and time 
needed to get the qualification or degree. Salary should be based on the 
value that person brings to the organization, and how much effort they 
spent in coming to that point is irrelevant. People who go to school for 
a long time to get a degree in physics do it because all they want to do 
for a living is physics, and getting the degree is a requirement of 
doing that for a living -- period. If you want to be a master 
electrician, you're going to spend a lot of time getting there through 
the apprenticeship organization, just about as much time as a PhD in 
mathematics will invest: four years as an apprentice, at least four 
years as a journeyman. Last I looked, average apprentice salary was 
about $43k, with a journeyman making about the same, and master 
electricians making about $60k.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 10:17 -0700
  Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-05-26 12:27 -0500
    Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 16:18 -0700
      Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 09:55 -0700
      Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-05-31 22:32 -0700
  Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 13:26 -0500
    Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 12:55 -0700
      Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 16:01 -0500
    Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-05-31 22:25 -0700
      Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 03:00 -0400
        Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 09:33 -0700
      Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 02:14 -0700
      Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 09:36 -0500
        Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-01 12:13 -0500
          Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 14:04 -0500
            Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-01 15:10 -0500
              Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 16:46 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-01 18:37 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 20:08 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-02 00:07 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 10:38 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-02 12:22 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 13:34 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-02 22:52 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 07:11 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-03 12:07 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 12:20 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-03 13:04 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 13:19 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 12:31 -0700
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 12:24 -0700
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-03 20:22 -0500
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-06-03 12:11 -0700
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-03 20:58 -0500
  Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 16:17 -0700
    Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 09:52 -0700
      Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 11:14 -0700
        Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 02:13 -0700
          Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 11:45 -0700
            Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 09:39 -0700
          Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 09:30 -0700
            Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-12 09:40 -0700
          Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-12 09:44 -0700
          Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 06:18 -0700
            Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 08:01 -0700
              Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 08:29 -0700
              Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-21 10:56 -0500
      Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-05-28 07:27 -0500
        Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-05-28 10:50 -0700
      Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 10:31 -0700
        Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 20:06 -0700
          Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 18:18 -0700
            Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-21 10:57 -0500
              Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-06-21 10:58 -0700
                Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-06-21 13:15 -0500
      Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 09:51 -0700
        Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 20:04 -0700
          Re: A lot of mud on a lot of faces James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-06-12 09:35 -0700

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