Re: Questions for Eisteinians

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: Questions for Eisteinians
Date	2016-05-22 22:59 +0000
Organization	The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
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kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 9:31:11 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>> >Why is there no time expansion and length expansion equations?

>> Read the source:
>> http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf

>> You'll see that gamma is defined as 1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2).
>> Given that v is a real number whose absolute value is less than c, you'll
>> see that gamma can only be a real number greater than or equal to 1 as the
>> denominator is always less than or equal to 1.

>Sigh.....that means that 1/gamma is always greater than 1.....so what is 
>your point????

Ken, 1/gamma is NEVER greater than 1.  Simple algebra shows that if 
gamma>=1, 1/gamma must be between 0 and 1 inclusive.

>> As the time dilation of a moving object is proportional to gamma, which
>> can only be greater than or equal to one, there is no possibility of
>> time contraction, what you miscall as "time expansion".

>1/gamma is equal to your "time contraction" and my "time expansion" and it 
>means that a moving clock accumulates clock seconds at a faster rate 
>than the observer's clock.

This is not part of SR.  There is no part of Einstein's math that has a 
term like that.  See:
    ON THE ELECTRODYNAMICS OF MOVING BODIES
    By A. EINSTEIN
    June 30, 1905
    http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf

>> Similarly, the
>> measured length of a moving object is inversely proportional to gamma,
>> there can only be length contraction and no length expansion.

>Similarly 1/gamma is light-path length expansion.

Once again, there is nothing in SR that predicts that.  See:
    ON THE ELECTRODYNAMICS OF MOVING BODIES
    By A. EINSTEIN
    June 30, 1905
    http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf

>> >Does that mean that SRT is based on the concept that the SRT observer
>> >assumes that he is in a preferred frame.....the aether frame and that's
>> >why SRT and LET have the same math?

>> Of course not, since SRT explicitly has no preferred frame and no aether.

>Assertion is not a valid argument.

So why do you always make (invalid) assertions about SR?

But it's not my assertion.  It's Einstein's, with proof:
    ON THE ELECTRODYNAMICS OF MOVING BODIES
    By A. EINSTEIN
    June 30, 1905
    http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf

>> >Does that mean that the inertial frame in SRT is just another name for
>> >the aether frame?

>> Of course not, since SRT explicitly disavows any need for any aether.

>Disavow all you want....

I didn't disavow it, Einstein did.  See:
    ON THE ELECTRODYNAMICS OF MOVING BODIES
    By A. EINSTEIN
    June 30, 1905
    http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf

>an inertial frame is just another name for a location in the aether. 
>That's why SRT and LET derived the same math.

You keep saying "Assertion is not a valid argument."  So why do you keep
asserting that falsehood?  Especially when Einstein explicitly disavows
use of the aether in his paper?

Thread

Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-21 14:36 -0700
  Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 16:45 -0500
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-21 15:53 -0700
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 18:54 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 17:22 -0700
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-22 05:51 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 08:06 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-05-22 13:42 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 17:55 -0500
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:18 -0500
  Re: Questions for Eisteinians "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 16:01 -0700
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-21 16:16 -0700
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 08:25 +0200
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-22 06:45 -0700
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 04:56 -0700
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-22 05:22 -0700
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 08:15 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 15:39 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 07:34 -0700
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 08:51 -0700
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 12:55 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 14:56 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:05 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 13:33 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-23 22:24 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 06:31 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:30 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-24 14:35 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 18:14 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 20:33 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 06:35 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 06:56 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:52 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:02 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:11 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:40 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 13:56 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 16:18 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 16:01 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 20:26 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-25 23:32 -0400
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 20:31 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-24 10:54 -0400
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 10:21 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-24 14:16 -0400
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 14:15 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 06:23 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-25 23:29 -0400
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 08:46 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-24 13:37 -0400
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:26 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:01 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 07:51 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:00 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:23 -0500
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 13:09 -0700
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:24 -0500
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:38 -0500
  Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-22 01:30 +0000
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-22 06:11 -0700
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 08:19 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-22 06:49 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 11:27 -0500
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:29 -0500
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-22 22:59 +0000
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 07:41 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-23 17:49 +0000
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 13:20 -0700
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:26 -0500
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-23 22:22 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 06:30 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-24 14:32 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:34 -0500
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:27 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 13:10 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:40 -0500
  Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:15 -0500
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 13:03 -0700
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:27 -0500
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:38 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 14:51 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 06:30 -0500
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 06:51 -0700
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:42 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:08 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:12 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:42 -0500
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:47 -0500
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:41 -0500
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 09:18 -0700
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 11:25 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 07:37 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:07 -0500
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 11:50 -0700
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:23 -0700
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-25 16:50 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 13:58 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-25 21:39 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 17:11 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 02:53 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 09:42 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 11:51 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 09:32 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 12:02 -0500
  Re: Questions for Eisteinians "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 10:33 -0700
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-26 14:15 -0400

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