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Re: Questions for Eisteinians

From moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Questions for Eisteinians
Date 2016-05-23 22:22 +0000
Organization The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID <nhvvr6$9v7$2@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <11579c93-9dba-4615-846d-97d53eb033dc@googlegroups.com> <nhtdkt$d9i$1@pcls7.std.com> <88ab14bb-c821-4899-b829-02cca9ffae96@googlegroups.com> <nhvfri$95r$1@pcls7.std.com> <72ec89f1-629a-49a7-8e00-261fd085b32a@googlegroups.com>

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kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 1:50:16 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
>> 
>> >The point is that that's why SR is an incomplete theory. That's why I 
>> >invented IRT.
>> 
>> But IRT is coming up with a possibility that is not suggested by the math.

>That's why SRT math is incomplete.

What, you think you can add unsupported ideas wiy-nilly to a theory, and 
that makes it more "complete"?  I just call it unsupported crap.

>> This is because if A sees B moving at a velocity v, B will see A as moving
>> at a velocity of -v. 

>No.....A uses his clock to determine B is moving wrt him at Vab and B uses 
>his clock to determine A is moving at speed Vba.

Yes, and according to the symmetry of relativity, Vba = -Vab.  I just
wrote v and -v rather than Vab and Vba.

>> However, the computation of gamma depends on the 
>> square of the velocity, and (-v)^2 is equal to v^2, so both get the exact
>> same value for gamma.  Therefore each sees the other's clock as running 
>> gamma times slower, never faster.

>You calculations is based on the following bogus assumptions:
>1. A and B clock second contain the same amount of time. IOW , A clock 
>second is a universal interval of time.....it is not.

The concept of proper time means that A always sees A's clock run at the 
normal rate.  And B always sees B's clock run at its normal rate. This
is part of SR, the concept of proper time.

>2.You assumed that each predicts the other clock runs slow by a factor of 
>1/gamma. This is wrong.

No, I just _showed_ that each sees the other's clock runs slow. Both A and B
come up with the same gamma, and each sees the same thing in the other.

You may think it's a contradiction but it's not.  A and B are measuring
_different things_.  In one case, two readings of Clock A1 are compared 
first to Clock B1 and then to Clock B2.  In the other case, two readings of
Clock B1 are compared to Clock A1 and then to Clock A2. Two different 
things.

> Each must include the possibility that the other 
>clock is running fast by a factor of gamma.

Since the math never suggests that, and the two time measurements are of
two different things, there simply is no reason to do so.

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Thread

Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-21 14:36 -0700
  Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 16:45 -0500
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-21 15:53 -0700
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 18:54 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 17:22 -0700
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-22 05:51 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 08:06 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-05-22 13:42 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 17:55 -0500
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:18 -0500
  Re: Questions for Eisteinians "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-21 16:01 -0700
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-21 16:16 -0700
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 08:25 +0200
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-22 06:45 -0700
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 04:56 -0700
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-22 05:22 -0700
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 08:15 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 15:39 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 07:34 -0700
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 08:51 -0700
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 12:55 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 14:56 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:05 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 13:33 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-23 22:24 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 06:31 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:30 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-24 14:35 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 18:14 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 20:33 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 06:35 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 06:56 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:52 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:02 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:11 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:40 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 13:56 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 16:18 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 16:01 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 20:26 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-25 23:32 -0400
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 20:31 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-24 10:54 -0400
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 10:21 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-24 14:16 -0400
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 14:15 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 06:23 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-25 23:29 -0400
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 08:46 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-24 13:37 -0400
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:26 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:01 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 07:51 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:00 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:23 -0500
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 13:09 -0700
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:24 -0500
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:38 -0500
  Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-22 01:30 +0000
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-22 06:11 -0700
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 08:19 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-22 06:49 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 11:27 -0500
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:29 -0500
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-22 22:59 +0000
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 07:41 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-23 17:49 +0000
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 13:20 -0700
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:26 -0500
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-23 22:22 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 06:30 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-24 14:32 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:34 -0500
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:27 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 13:10 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:40 -0500
  Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 11:15 -0500
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 13:03 -0700
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:27 -0500
      Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-23 15:38 -0500
        Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 14:51 -0700
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 06:30 -0500
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 06:51 -0700
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:42 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:08 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:12 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:42 -0500
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:47 -0500
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:41 -0500
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 09:18 -0700
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 11:25 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 07:37 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 10:07 -0500
          Re: Questions for Eisteinians Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 11:50 -0700
            Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:23 -0700
              Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-25 16:50 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 13:58 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-25 21:39 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 17:11 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 02:53 +0000
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 09:42 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 11:51 -0500
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 09:32 -0700
                Re: Questions for Eisteinians Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 12:02 -0500
  Re: Questions for Eisteinians "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 10:33 -0700
    Re: Questions for Eisteinians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-26 14:15 -0400

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