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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #46238
| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub |
| Date | 2016-03-27 21:29 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <nd9jcb$1m5$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | <2016Mar26.091504@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <nd7aus$hdb$1@dont-email.me> <2016Mar27.093254@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
Am Sun, 27 Mar 2016 07:32:54 +0000 schrieb Anton Ertl: > Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes: >>Am Sat, 26 Mar 2016 08:15:04 +0000 schrieb Anton Ertl: >>As user, I would absolutely hate it when the next release of my Forth >>system would break all my programs which include some system library, >>just because the maintainer had changed all the extensions. > > That's why I did not suggest changing existing files. But that's a bad idea: The existing files continue to have the problem, e.g. being wrongly syntax-highlighted in the editor, because the editor thinks it is a F# file. Furthermore, inconsistent extensions are annoying, too. I want to load the string library, is it called string.fs or is it a new library which would come under the name string.4th? And, what could be worse: They both might exist, but actually be two different string libraries, the first our "old, legacy" one, and the new string.4th the "shiny new, much better one", which unfortunately is incompatible... Don't. If you change things like extensions, change them everywhere. And before you do that, make sure the change will go smooth. >>So, in order to make a change of file extensions possible, we would >>first need to specify that INCLUDE works even when you don't specify the >>extension. > > That would not help existing code that contains the file extension. A warning could be printed when the existing code still uses the file extension, like "in <file>:<line>: explicit use of file extensions for include is deprecated". > Of course, if we wanted to support changing the extension of existing > files, these words could try the filename with the new extension if the > file name with the old extension does not work. But it is simpler not > to change existing files. If there weren't any drawbacks with the existing extension, we don't need to change anything. >>Judging from the past discussions about source file names, I think that >>any approach that nails it down to one particular way of processing file >>names will not be accepted. > > True. One more reason not to change existing files. Still doesn't help with the drawbacks. Funny that you are in the "we don't have a problem" camp here. If we don't have a problem with the existing file extensions, we can stop the discussion right now. If we have a problem, it includes existing files, and they better get the new, non-conflicting suffix. On Linux, we haven't problems with .fs now, because nobody is using .net on Linux, and for the Windows users, we don't give a shit ;-). This may change in the next years (the Linux use of .net, not that we don't give a shit with Windows users problems; that won't change ;-). >> "We have done it this way for 20 years, and >>you don't want to wade through 1 million lines of code and change it", >>and I think yes, that's reasonable. > > Actually, I did not hear that argument when discussing the directories > RfDs. It was more like "We don't have this problem (we build programs > on only one system and deliver binaries, so setting up the directories > for finding the source code in the source code is the way to do it; and > we use SUBSTITUTE for that, and that's the best thing since sliced > bread, and it will make your proposal unnecessary), so what you propose > is unnecessary." It looks like VFX is a "works for me" product in that respect, it ships with some of these macros set to the paths Stephen Pelc's computer uses. This definitely works for him, with settings like "vfxpath = /home/ stephen/Products/VfxForth.dev/Sources". I doubt it works for anybody else. Strictly speaking, I think the shipping of MINOS without an out-of- the-box setting to find the dependencies was a GPL violation, as the GPL requires all build scripts ;-). Maybe the VFX users don't have the expectation of things working out of the box, and actually read the manual to change that setting... or figure out that they really ought to buy that support contract MPE wants them to sell ;-). There's an incentive for MPE to deliver something that doesn't work without support; while for us, there's an incentive to deliver something that does, because for us, support is our cost. >>So my proposal would be in that direction: Push that actual semantics >>out of the standard into a library, and just make sure the necessary >>plugin interface is standardized. That would allow us to say "require >>some- packet" and the logic behind expanding filenames in require could >>say "ok, >>there's no file for that in the search path, but let's look in >>theforth.net package list, if we find one - and if so, download that, >>and include it", which would be part of the fget include. You probably >>don't want to have this on open-file, though... so the plugin mechanism >>must be able to distinguish between these cases. > > Interesting idea. Now if two libraries use their own plug-ins, how to > combine that? And how do you overcome the "we don't have this problem" > attitude? As usual with global settings and libraries: It is expected that the library reverts the setting to the previous one, unless the library's purpose is to change that setting. It's the same issue as with BASE or the search order, and recognizers. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ* http://bernd-paysan.de/
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File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-26 08:15 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-27 00:53 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-27 07:32 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-27 21:29 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-03-28 13:21 +0000
relative file names and INCLUDED (was: File extensions ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-28 14:25 +0000
Re: relative file names and INCLUDED (was: File extensions ...) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-03-28 15:35 +0000
Re: relative file names and INCLUDED (was: File extensions ...) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-28 19:58 +0000
Re: relative file names and INCLUDED (was: File extensions ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-29 07:42 +0000
Re: relative file names and INCLUDED (was: File extensions ...) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-03-29 11:33 +0000
Re: relative file names and INCLUDED (was: File extensions ...) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-29 15:34 +0000
Re: relative file names and INCLUDED Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2016-03-29 12:31 -0400
Re: relative file names and INCLUDED Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-30 14:21 +0000
Re: relative file names and INCLUDED Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2016-03-30 10:35 -0400
Re: relative file names and INCLUDED (was: File extensions ...) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-03-29 16:58 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-28 12:29 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-29 11:47 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub mhx@iae.nl - 2016-03-27 01:36 -0700
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-27 15:19 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-03-26 19:51 -0700
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-27 08:01 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-03-27 15:00 +0100
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-27 14:15 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-03-29 08:13 +0100
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-29 00:15 -0700
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-03-29 09:45 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-29 08:39 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-03-29 11:09 +0100
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-29 10:35 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-03-29 14:23 +0100
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-29 16:47 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-03-30 12:14 +0100
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Bob Butler <bob@work.com> - 2016-03-30 11:11 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-30 14:10 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-30 14:00 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-03-30 17:27 +0100
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-30 16:47 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-03-29 09:41 -0700
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-03-28 13:34 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-28 14:17 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-03-28 15:24 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-28 10:51 -0700
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-03-28 18:35 -0700
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-03-29 08:05 +0100
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-29 07:12 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-29 00:42 -0700
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-03-29 09:55 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-29 10:23 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-27 14:09 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-27 15:20 +0000
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub "Steve(spt)" <steven@jupiter-ace.co.uk> - 2016-03-28 06:44 -0700
Re: File extensions and Gforth on Openhub Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-03-30 08:49 +0200
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