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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #156700

Re: I Feel Old

From Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: I Feel Old
Date 2016-01-15 13:19 -0600
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <n7bgj6$bcd$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <9dcde262-7129-4a8f-b034-105b67d61cf5@googlegroups.com> <n78v3t$mne$1@dont-email.me> <PM0005296094F0B736@aca20255.ipt.aol.com> <n7b46p$k89$1@dont-email.me> <t5jnmc-73q.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>

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On 15-Jan-16 10:26, Morten Reistad wrote:
> In article <n7b46p$k89$1@dont-email.me>, Stephen Sprunk
> <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:
>> On 15-Jan-16 08:51, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>> Stephen Sprunk wrote:
>>>> Note that moving to trust pensions also puts those assets out
>>>> of the reach of corporate raiders (or corrupt execs), which
>>>> radically reduces the odds of the employer going bankrupt in
>>>> the first place!
>>> 
>>> And then the companies in charge of those trusts go bankrupt.
>> 
>> So what?  A new trustee gets appointed, and everything is fine.
> 
> What you Leftopondians need to understand is that there is absolutly 
> no reason to accept that your employer or any other limited company 
> is in ownership of your pensions. None. Whatsoever.

I totally agree; that's the sort of thing trusts were _created_ for.

> There are lots of different, sane structures to have pensions in. 
> Like trusts, these 401k's you have as a special semi-corporation, 
> coops, unions[*], etc. etc.

401(k) and similar plans are trusts; the only corporation involved is
the "plan administrator", which is a fancy word for trustee.

I see no reason to _not_ use a trust for any such plan, even if such
plan were organized by a coop or union.

> There is no reason why you should go for complicated management of 
> these pensions. There are no complicated management that has proven 
> it's muster. The only rules that work are very simple ones where you
> shift instruments according to the business cycle.

Agreed, which is why the overhead of 401(k) and similar plans themselves
are essentially zero; there are costs to having a web site, keeping
track of the accounts for each beneficiary, receiving and issuing
checks, etc., but they're negligible as long as you have scale.

The trust itself invests in various mutual funds, which have their own
costs, but anyone who chooses anything other than indexes is an idiot,
and in that case fund overhead is negligible as well.

> Otherwise just stay invested in some index fund that takes around
> 1/100th of a percent margin every year, be it stocks or bonds.

Agreed.

> If the caretaker of all your pensions goes bust the worst that
> should happen is a hundred dollars in setup fee for a new one.

Trustees are replaced all the time; it's not a problem.  Again, that is
part of the _point_ of using a trust.

> [*] Please remember that lots of organisations outside the US has 
> incorporated as unions. You need 8 people here to make one. You get 
> barganing power, to the extent that that is useful, but you also get 
> lots of legal protection and tax free investments. (They are taxed
> as they are paid back out). They can supply you with extra education 
> grants, unemployment and sick grants, not tax free but at sensible 
> tax rates. All legally isolated from your employer and yourself.

Our unions (i.e. organized crime) aren't the same as your unions (i.e.
workers' guilds); I'd still want a trust even if funded via members'
dues.  The union itself wouldn't need to be the trustee; there is an
entire trust management industry that would do a better job at lower
cost--and with much lower risk of corruption.

Given the low rate of unionization (11.1% of US workers), it seems far
more urgent to find a similar structure for non-union workers.  OTOH,
such plans might help unions gain millions of new members.

S

-- 
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

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I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 10:49 -0800
  Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-01 13:33 -0600
    Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 12:05 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-02 04:41 -0400
        Re: I Feel Old "Joe Morris" <j.c.morris@verizon.net> - 2016-01-02 11:50 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 17:14 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:36 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-03 08:07 -0600
              Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 15:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 11:05 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-03 17:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 18:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 06:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 12:24 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-03 09:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-03 13:12 -0700
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-03 16:56 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 14:27 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-03 23:53 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-04 07:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 14:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 16:55 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-04 11:41 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-03 17:37 +0100
            Re: I Feel Old Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-03 13:11 -0700
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:48 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-04 16:01 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 16:23 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-03 17:30 -0400
      Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-04 14:55 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 13:15 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:59 -0600
            Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 13:31 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-05 22:11 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-04 17:07 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2016-01-06 19:21 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-01 21:33 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-01 22:52 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 15:57 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-01 20:52 -0800
        Re: I Feel Old Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-02 00:45 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 06:40 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:25 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 08:18 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 07:26 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:34 -0800
        Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-02 14:27 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:28 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-02 19:56 -0600
              Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 07:26 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-03 10:00 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-17 08:48 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 13:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 11:15 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-06 11:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-06 12:02 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-06 18:52 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-06 18:06 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 09:22 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 15:55 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 09:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 17:47 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 18:47 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 19:23 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 10:58 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-08 06:37 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 15:53 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 11:26 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 09:53 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:24 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:06 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-08 10:13 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 17:42 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-09 07:07 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-09 11:55 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 15:40 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:13 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-09 13:36 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-09 15:30 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-08 10:43 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 10:33 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 10:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 22:53 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 12:53 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:29 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:26 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 16:22 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-13 10:03 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-12 21:01 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-13 14:22 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-13 10:14 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-13 18:51 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-14 07:02 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 13:06 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 09:51 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 06:01 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 13:21 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-08 20:58 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-01-08 20:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:31 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-09 18:33 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-09 12:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 15:31 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 17:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-09 17:07 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-10 11:25 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-11 17:08 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 07:43 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 08:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 09:52 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 12:28 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 10:58 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 14:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 13:57 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 18:19 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 17:37 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 18:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-08 16:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-09 18:38 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 21:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-09 22:56 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-11 23:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 07:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-12 11:28 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 14:58 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 14:01 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 16:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-12 22:07 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-09 05:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-11 14:48 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-01-11 17:28 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:01 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 16:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-07 13:13 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 18:55 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 17:40 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-08 23:20 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:29 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:30 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 10:59 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 19:48 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-05 06:27 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-05 16:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-05 12:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 11:08 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 13:14 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-04 14:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 22:38 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 17:47 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-13 01:27 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 11:18 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-13 19:05 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 20:22 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-14 14:09 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-15 14:51 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 09:48 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 17:26 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 13:19 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-15 09:20 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-15 17:44 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 12:57 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-19 12:42 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-19 15:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 19:15 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 13:44 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-15 15:02 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-16 08:58 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 23:51 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 16:01 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 17:11 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 08:03 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-16 08:29 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 03:38 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 15:32 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 16:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 16:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 02:11 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 14:02 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 14:22 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-18 05:09 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 15:00 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-18 03:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-16 16:15 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-17 11:39 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-18 04:41 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-16 16:33 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-16 11:19 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-16 18:36 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-16 17:23 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 13:01 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-16 20:55 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-16 14:53 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 05:43 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 19:50 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-17 09:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 14:33 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 15:19 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 19:27 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 15:00 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 15:32 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 22:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 16:12 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-17 11:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 12:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-17 09:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-17 10:05 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-17 15:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 05:14 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 15:38 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-16 14:09 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-16 15:19 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-15 19:29 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-15 14:25 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-14 13:46 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-14 05:17 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-14 13:11 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 22:37 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-05 04:44 -0400
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-05 11:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 17:04 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-04 17:36 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-02 15:01 +0000
        Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 15:58 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 06:40 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 12:31 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 22:06 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 07:09 +1100
      Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 12:11 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 20:42 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-04 16:43 +1100
          Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 22:05 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:21 +0100
          Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-04 17:47 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-04 16:10 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 13:26 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 21:57 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:46 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 17:36 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-07 13:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-08 15:35 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 00:15 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-08 19:41 +1100
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 12:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-07 21:32 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:51 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 12:59 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 22:17 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:35 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 22:17 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-05 19:24 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-05 17:31 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 07:38 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 06:50 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 13:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 05:49 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 14:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 07:13 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 16:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:39 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-06 09:14 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 10:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-15 17:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:42 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 14:20 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 14:34 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 19:52 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 12:35 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 20:54 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 23:48 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:38 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-07 07:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-07 06:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-09 21:47 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 05:45 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-10 12:18 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 08:12 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-10 13:40 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-07 08:15 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 05:48 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:29 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 10:20 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 20:52 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 06:54 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:34 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:40 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:39 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 10:22 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-15 17:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 20:13 -0600
          Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:26 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:37 -0600
            Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-08 23:25 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old Freddy1 <something@something.com> - 2016-01-02 21:35 -0500
      Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-03 05:34 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 08:33 +0000
        Re: I Feel Old Freddy1 <something@something.com> - 2016-01-03 15:17 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-03 20:52 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-04 05:09 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:57 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-01 20:46 -0800
    Re: I Feel Old Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-01-02 07:00 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.pssw.com.invalid> - 2016-01-02 01:44 -0700
      Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 13:46 -0800
    Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-02 09:11 -0800
  Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-02 11:49 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-03 08:14 -0600
    Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-03 17:11 +0000

csiph-web