Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #154964

Re: off topic: old house wiring?

From	Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: off topic: old house wiring?
Date	2015-12-10 11:02 -0600
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<n4cb1t$tl7$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<4bfe5610-cbb3-4dd2-a711-f9af1720f640@googlegroups.com> <scgmjc-32e.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> <1829973952.471388425.524289.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <n4avhn$7gv$1@dont-email.me> <irqnjc-fsi.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>

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On 10-Dec-15 02:48, Morten Reistad wrote:
> Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:
>> On 09-Dec-15 15:22, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> 100 amps seems to have been the minimum here for many years.  I
>>> don't know if newer construction supports more, though I wouldn't
>>> be surprised.
>> 
>> My house has a 200A/240V main breaker plus 60A/240V for
>> stove/oven, 50A/240V for A/C, 30A/240V for dryer, and a dozen or so
>> 20A/120V and 15A/120V for everything else, which seems typical
>> these days.
>> 
>> 48kVA of capacity does seem like serious overkill, though; my
>> electric bill runs 500kWh/mo (fall/winter/spring) to 1500kWh/mo
>> (summer), which averages out to 0.7W to 2.1W of actual usage.
> 
> kW I presume.

Yes.

> 48kVA / 240V = 200 A; i.e. single phase?

The utility feed is 240V split-phase: L-L at 240V, L-N at 120V.

Large loads (see above) get a 240V LLNG circuit, while regular loads get
a 120V LNG circuit; roughly half of the latter will be connected to each
utility leg.

Older homes didn't have a ground, so 240V LLN and 120V LN.  Such homes
are grandfathered in, but if you touch the wiring for a circuit at all,
that goes away and you have to replace it all the way back to the
breaker panel, so there is less and less of it over time.

> On this side of the water we use three-phase for every home with
> more than ~30A connections. Newer housing deployments get 400 TN-S;
> i.e. 400 phase to phase and 235 phase to neutral.

Depending on various factors, we may have single-phase or three-phase at
the pole, but in the latter case, each customer (or group of customers
on the same transformer) is only connected to one phase.

Small commercial customers get 3-phase, typically 480V; large ones will
get 4kV or even 27kV and then step it down themselves as needed.

> And I just cannot see how a home at < 300m2 (~3ksqf) could
> reasonably use more than 25 kVA. The hot water boiler takes 4, 2x
> stoves at max take 12, leaving 9 for general heating and a/c. But
> that is me. We even manage to have two electric car chargers at 7.2
> and 3 kW beside what the 12kW stove and heating take.
> 
> Average use is 950W in summer and nearly 3 in winter.

See above for mine.  I checked my meter's real-time usage stats, and it
appears I'm generally under 1kW, with periodic spikes (probably A/C) to
3-5kW, so my 48kVA capacity appears utterly insane.

S

-- 
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

Thread

off topic:  old house wiring? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-09 11:01 -0800
  Re: off topic:  old house wiring? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-12-09 14:17 -0600
    Re: off topic:  old house wiring? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-12-09 16:18 -0500
      Re: off topic:  old house wiring? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-09 13:38 -0800
        Re: off topic: old house wiring? philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-12-09 17:38 -0600
        Re: off topic:  old house wiring? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-12-10 13:54 -0600
  Re: off topic:  old house wiring? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-09 21:43 +0100
    Re: off topic:  old house wiring? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-09 13:19 -0800
      Re: off topic:  old house wiring? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-12 10:38 -0600
        Re: off topic:  old house wiring? "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-12-12 16:53 +0000
        Re: off topic:  old house wiring? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-12 18:06 +0100
          Re: off topic:  old house wiring? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-12 11:31 -0600
          Re: off topic:  old house wiring? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-12 11:25 -0800
        Re: off topic:  old house wiring? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-12 18:41 +0000
          Re: off topic:  old house wiring? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-12 17:14 -0600
            Re: off topic:  old house wiring? Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-12-12 23:31 +0000
            Re: off topic:  old house wiring? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-12 21:42 -0500
    Re: off topic: old house wiring? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-09 16:22 -0500
      Re: off topic: old house wiring? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-09 13:42 -0800
        Re: off topic: old house wiring? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-09 17:11 -0500
        Re: off topic: old house wiring? cmadams@cmadams.net (Chris Adams) - 2015-12-09 19:41 -0600
      Re: off topic: old house wiring? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-10 01:54 +0100
        Re: off topic: old house wiring? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-12-09 22:42 -0600
          Re: off topic: old house wiring? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-12-14 17:28 -0600
            Re: off topic: old house wiring? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-15 08:19 +0000
              Re: off topic: old house wiring? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-15 09:48 +0100
              Re: off topic: old house wiring? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-16 09:53 -0800
        Re: off topic: old house wiring? "Ranger" <r5432@gmail.com> - 2015-12-10 17:44 +1100
        Re: off topic: old house wiring? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-10 15:23 -0500
          Re: off topic: old house wiring? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-12-10 20:49 +0000
          Re: off topic: old house wiring? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-10 23:48 +0000
            Re: off topic: old house wiring? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-10 23:12 -0500
              Re: off topic: old house wiring? mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-11 10:12 +0000
              Re: off topic: old house wiring? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-11 08:31 -0600
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-12-11 14:47 +0000
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-11 09:06 -0600
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-12-11 15:49 +0000
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-11 09:37 -0800
            Re: off topic: old house wiring? mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-11 10:08 +0000
              Re: off topic: old house wiring? cmadams@cmadams.net (Chris Adams) - 2015-12-11 08:38 -0600
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-11 16:24 +0000
              Re: off topic: old house wiring? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-11 15:17 +0100
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-11 09:30 -0800
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-11 12:43 -0600
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-11 11:09 -0800
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-11 22:56 +0000
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-11 14:47 -0500
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-12-11 15:13 -0600
      Re: off topic: old house wiring? Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-09 22:39 -0600
        Re: off topic: old house wiring? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-09 23:12 -0600
          Re: off topic: old house wiring? Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-10 00:59 -0600
        Re: off topic: old house wiring? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-10 09:48 +0100
          Re: off topic: old house wiring? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-12-10 12:40 +0000
          Re: off topic: old house wiring? Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-10 11:02 -0600
            Re: off topic: old house wiring? Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-12-11 22:01 -0600
              Re: off topic: old house wiring? Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-12 00:48 -0600
                Re: off topic: old house wiring? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-12-12 11:16 +0100
      Re: off topic: old house wiring? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-12-14 17:25 -0600
        Re: off topic: old house wiring? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-16 09:45 -0800
    Re: off topic:  old house wiring? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-12-10 14:06 +0000
    Re: off topic:  old house wiring? "capek@ieee.org <Peter Capek>" <peter.capek@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 11:50 -0800
      Re: off topic:  old house wiring? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-12 16:56 -0600

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