Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #367172

Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation
Date	2015-10-15 17:30 +0000
Organization	The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID	<mvonru$ck7$1@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
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kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 9:17:04 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>> >> Since the satellite sees the earth's surface as in motion, the speed part
>> >> will be -7 us/day. 
>> 
>> >No....the satellite experienced acceleration so it predicts the speed 
>> >part for the earth clock to be +7 us/day running fast.
>> 
>> The satellite experiences acceleration, yes, which is why I said breaking
>> this problem down into two may not be 100% accurate.

>No idiot....the satellite experienced acceleration when it launched into 
>orbit. So from the ground clock point of view it is running slower by a 
>factor of -7us/day running slow.

No, mutual time dilation is a function of the speed difference between the 
two clocks, not on any acceleration.

>> However, if the acceleration is small enough, the satellite will see the
>> earth's surface whizzing by at the same speed we on earth see the 
>> satellite whiz by.  Therefore the SR effect will be the same, -7 us/day.

>No idiot.....the launch acceleration is what caused the earth clock 
>+7us/day running fast.

The launch acceleration is totally irrelevant (as long as it didn't break
the clock, of course).  It was in the past.  What matters is the current
speed difference and the gravitational potential difference.

>The total effect from the satellite point of view: 
>=+7us/day + (-45us/day)=-38us/day running slow

Time dilation in SR (and GR) always means the moving clock appears to run
slower, never faster.  Special RELATIVITY means that to the ground
observer, the satellite is whizzing by with a slowed clock (ignoring
gravitational potential), and to the satellite, the ground is whizzing by
with a slowed clock (again, ignoring gravitational potential).  That's why
the word Relativity is used.

To the GPS satellite, -7 us/day + -45 us/day means it sees a -52 us/day
difference on an earth-bound clock.

Thread

Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-12 06:25 -0700
  Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Euclid Baumann <eubaum@parallelnetwork.org> - 2015-10-12 13:43 +0000
    Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-12 07:24 -0700
      Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2015-10-12 19:44 +0200
  Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-12 10:31 -0500
    Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Euclid Baumann <eubaum@parallelnetwork.org> - 2015-10-12 17:21 +0000
      Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Euclid Baumann <eubaum@parallelnetwork.org> - 2015-10-12 17:22 +0000
      Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Euclid Baumann <eubaum@parallelnetwork.org> - 2015-10-12 17:24 +0000
    Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 10:35 -0700
    Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-12 12:44 -0700
      Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-12 22:20 -0500
        Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-14 05:57 -0700
          Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-10-14 15:21 -0400
            Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-14 12:49 -0700
        Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation alsor@interia.pl - 2015-10-22 06:04 -0700
          Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 11:22 -0700
    Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-12 21:23 -0700
      Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-12 21:28 -0700
  Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 10:40 -0500
    Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-12 12:17 -0700
      Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 16:34 -0700
      Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-13 07:43 -0500
        Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-14 05:37 -0700
          Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-14 05:54 -0700
            Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-14 12:58 -0700
              Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-14 13:18 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-15 06:35 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-15 06:55 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-15 17:46 +0200
              Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-10-15 04:16 +0000
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-15 06:01 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-10-15 13:17 +0000
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-15 09:12 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-10-15 17:30 +0000
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-16 10:15 -0500
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Euclid Baumann <eubaum@parallelnetwork.org> - 2015-10-16 15:23 +0000
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-17 09:09 -0500
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Euclid Baumann <eubaum@parallelnetwork.org> - 2015-10-17 14:37 +0000
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 09:50 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-16 09:48 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-10-16 18:06 +0000
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-10-16 14:49 -0400
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Euclid Baumann <eubaum@parallelnetwork.org> - 2015-10-16 19:25 +0000
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 15:05 -0500
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 13:14 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-10-16 18:34 -0400
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-17 09:19 -0500
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2015-10-17 12:25 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-17 11:15 -0500
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-17 18:45 +0200
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation alsor@interia.pl - 2015-10-22 07:39 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 11:23 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-16 19:30 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-10-25 07:27 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-10-25 07:34 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Juan Esteban <esteju@freecannabis.org> - 2015-10-25 15:17 +0000
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-10-25 18:48 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-10-25 19:04 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-16 10:05 -0500
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-16 18:14 +0200
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 09:42 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-16 10:04 -0700
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-17 09:29 -0500
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-17 17:06 +0200
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-18 09:07 -0700
          Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 08:50 -0500
          Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-14 22:19 -0500
            Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 20:28 -0700
            Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-15 06:20 -0700
            Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-16 19:18 -0700
  Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 08:58 -0700
  Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation alsor@interia.pl - 2015-10-12 17:22 -0700
  Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2015-10-12 17:56 -0700
    Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2015-10-13 06:28 -0700
    Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-10-13 08:40 -0700
      Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2015-10-14 09:07 +0200
    Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 19:15 -0700
      Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2015-10-18 09:33 -0700
        Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 06:07 -0700
          Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation shuba <tim@sh.uba> - 2015-10-25 19:16 +0000
            Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 05:09 -0700
              Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-10-26 08:21 -0400
              Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation shuba <tim@sh.uba> - 2015-10-26 21:41 +0000
                Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 19:28 -0700
          Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2015-10-26 08:52 -0700
  Re: Testing of SR mutual time dilation John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-12 20:59 -0700

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