Re: Relativistic Radio

From	Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: Relativistic Radio
Date	2015-09-15 13:10 +0200
Organization	Good company
Message-ID	<mt8u6o$ik0$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(17 earlier) <d712e771-6b54-4b12-9daa-6eba5d96856a@googlegroups.com> <mt6fmm$kkb$1@dont-email.me> <ba258d97-d2dc-4954-9492-11098df1be04@googlegroups.com> <mt8e8c$uif$1@dont-email.me> <bcac8562-3396-4da7-9aea-1222d44647ec@googlegroups.com>

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On 09/15/2015 12:06 PM, jaymoseley@hotmail.com wrote:
> Poutnik wrote...
>>>>> Again, wrong conclusion based on wrong analysis. you again completely ignore the intensity and the total energy, focusing just on wavelength and duration.
> 
>>>> just for the illustration, thermally emitting source with T=500 K, moving 0.6c is for the detector equivalent to static 1000k
> 
>>> But thats increase is measuring per time unit isnt it? Instead, lets say your source emitted just 1nanosecond of radiation and your detector measured the > >>total 1ns energy while it or the source moved at 0.6 c Would it still be double energy received?
> 
>> The increase is in watts per steridian
> 
> In other words time units. Seeing as steridian are units of area and watts joules per second. 

steradian definitely is  not unit of area, but of solid angle.

> 
> Like Odd, you do this to avoid answering a question that may prove you are incorrect.
> So I ask again until you answer. If your emitter only emitted radiation for one time unit
> and that blue shifted radiation was therefore observed for a shorter period because
> its waves are bunched up.( you move towards source) Would you still receive double the 
> energy? 
> The answer is .. no.

The answer is yes, if photon count is the same,
e.g. catching all the light from a laser.

The answer is no, if the source is wide angle one,
as there is directional redistribution of the intensity,
aside of frequencies.

> Whether or not its the same as emitted is still open for debate. So far you have supplied
> no experimental evidence to prove it isnt the same.

Rather you try to avoid to see the answers
Odd and I provide you forsome time already.

The answer is simple.
In frame A,
emitter ( light source or ball ejector ) emits energy E_A
detector ( radiometer or ball catcher ) absorbes energy E_A.

In frame B,
emitter emits energy E_B
detector absorbes energy E_B.

So receiver does not receive more energy than is emitted.

And generally, E_A <> E_B

> 
> And before I can respond to your blackbody emitter example... You have emitted 
> radiation at 500k but perceived as 1000k if detector moves towards source at 0.6 c
> Can you show me those full calculations? Im not sure how you get
> a doubling of energy when your detector speed is only 0.6c relative to the 
> emitter. Are you including relativistic effects in your calculations?
> 
I would have burns of 4th grade if I emitted at 500 K (smiling).

Can you show me full calculations describing energy conservation
violation by SR and/or quantum EMR model ?

No, I cannot, I am not en expert in relativistic electrodynamics.
If you want to see more, you have to bother reading additional
resources, e.g. referenced here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_Doppler_effect#Doppler_effect_on_intensity
http://www.pnas.org/content/79/4/1340.abstract

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes a great man humble, but a small man arrogant.

Eventual Wikipedia articles are provided with intention
of a convenient reference, not as an evidence, argument,
and usually not as a primary source of my knowledge.

Thread

Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-06 20:21 +0000
  Re: Relativistic Radio Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2015-09-06 14:34 -0700
    Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-06 21:47 +0000
  Re: Relativistic Radio pcardinale@volcanomail.com - 2015-09-06 17:36 -0700
    Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-07 01:56 +0000
      Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 07:15 +0200
        Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-07 05:44 +0000
          Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 08:50 +0200
      Re: Relativistic Radio pcardinale@volcanomail.com - 2015-09-07 15:16 -0700
      Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 10:04 -0500
        Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-08 16:59 +0000
          Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 12:41 -0500
            Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-08 18:24 +0000
          Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 21:22 +0200
        Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-08 17:43 +0000
          Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 12:47 -0500
            Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-08 19:26 +0000
        Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-10 01:58 -0700
          Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 19:16 +0200
            Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 19:42 +0200
              Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-11 00:53 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-11 06:07 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 15:08 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 15:28 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 06:31 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio "Phony McNymster" <invalid@example.com> - 2015-09-11 07:42 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 07:59 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-11 07:16 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 09:41 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 09:49 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-11 18:18 +0000
                Re: Relativistic Radio noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 11:24 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 11:20 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-12 06:21 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 02:04 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-13 00:07 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:22 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:59 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-13 03:44 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 07:33 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 07:49 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 01:07 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 10:40 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 03:40 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 13:19 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 04:55 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 15:01 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 16:36 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 12:18 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 08:29 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 02:41 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 12:11 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 06:06 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 15:40 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 06:06 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 15:59 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 09:39 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 18:47 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 10:10 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 19:57 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 11:14 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 20:23 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 20:31 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 12:21 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 13:30 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 00:57 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 14:50 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 12:57 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 08:37 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 03:06 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 13:10 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 13:15 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 06:43 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 16:11 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 18:26 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 18:35 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 16:44 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 08:15 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 08:44 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 17:38 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 18:00 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 11:22 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-12 12:29 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 01:16 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-12 23:09 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 08:35 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 08:44 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-12 23:50 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:14 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-13 05:24 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 07:35 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 01:01 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 10:39 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 09:34 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 12:31 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 08:53 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 10:22 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:08 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 09:32 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 09:31 -0500

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