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Re: Relativistic Radio

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Relativistic Radio
Date 2015-09-11 11:22 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <msuv3d$bom$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <mssfb3$soq$1@dont-email.me> <36ba79e3-27e5-4072-a70b-6216bc783def@googlegroups.com> <msujlo$qpg$1@dont-email.me> <ab664cc6-1513-4186-90f6-10be3af0e660@googlegroups.com> <msusen$m3$1@dont-email.me>

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On 9/11/2015 10:38 AM, Poutnik wrote:
> On 09/11/2015 04:16 PM, jaymoseley@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Poutnik wrote...
>>> Energy is generally never conserved between frames, but within a frame.
>>
>>> in frame A the energy EA is provided to produce a photon of energy EA. In frame B the energy EB is provided to produce a photon of energy EB.
>>
>>> energy conservation law is valid within a frame, not between frames.
>>
>> Nonetheless as I have described in my last post, the source that emits the radiation
>> does not need to lose or gain energy, regardless of the observors motion relative to
>> the source. Calculating this where light is treated as a wave proves my point.
>
> The source in every frame gains the same power
> as it spends by the emission, even if
> this power is different in different frames.
>
>>
>> In fact, contrary to your claim of conservation within frames, I would say that your
>> arguments mean no conservation of energy in the source frame. Because other frames,
>> like the observor frame, take it away.
>>
> Therefore energy is conserved in every frame.
>
> There is  no energy exchange between frames,
> as frames are human constructs, helping us
> to observe, describe and evaluate reality.
>

I'm beginning to think there is a fundamental misconception about 
reference frames that I've seen from others. Some people imagine a 
source and a detector that are moving relative to each other. In their 
thinking, the source belongs in one frame and the detector belongs in 
another. There is then thinking that energy conservation implies that 
the energy emitted in the source frame should equal the energy received 
in the detector frame.

This is of course wrong.

In reality, the source and the detector are both in the source frame, 
with the source stationary in this frame and the detector moving in this 
frame. In this frame the energy emitted is the same as the energy 
received. Also in reality, the source and the detector are both in the 
detector frame, with the source moving in this frame and the detector 
stationary. In this frame, the energy emitted is the same as the energy 
received, though these two numbers are not the same as they are in the 
source frame.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Thread

Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-06 20:21 +0000
  Re: Relativistic Radio Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2015-09-06 14:34 -0700
    Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-06 21:47 +0000
  Re: Relativistic Radio pcardinale@volcanomail.com - 2015-09-06 17:36 -0700
    Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-07 01:56 +0000
      Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 07:15 +0200
        Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-07 05:44 +0000
          Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 08:50 +0200
      Re: Relativistic Radio pcardinale@volcanomail.com - 2015-09-07 15:16 -0700
      Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 10:04 -0500
        Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-08 16:59 +0000
          Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 12:41 -0500
            Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-08 18:24 +0000
          Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 21:22 +0200
        Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-08 17:43 +0000
          Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-08 12:47 -0500
            Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-08 19:26 +0000
        Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-10 01:58 -0700
          Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 19:16 +0200
            Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 19:42 +0200
              Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-11 00:53 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-11 06:07 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 15:08 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 15:28 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 06:31 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio "Phony McNymster" <invalid@example.com> - 2015-09-11 07:42 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 07:59 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-11 07:16 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 09:41 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 09:49 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-09-11 18:18 +0000
                Re: Relativistic Radio noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 11:24 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 11:20 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-12 06:21 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 02:04 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-13 00:07 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:22 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:59 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-13 03:44 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 07:33 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 07:49 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 01:07 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 10:40 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 03:40 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 13:19 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 04:55 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 15:01 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 16:36 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 12:18 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 08:29 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 02:41 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 12:11 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 06:06 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 15:40 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 06:06 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 15:59 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 09:39 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 18:47 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 10:10 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 19:57 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 11:14 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 20:23 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 20:31 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 12:21 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 13:30 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 00:57 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 14:50 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 12:57 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 08:37 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 03:06 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 13:10 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 13:15 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-15 06:43 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 16:11 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 18:26 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 18:35 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 16:44 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 08:15 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 08:44 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 17:38 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 18:00 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 11:22 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-12 12:29 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 01:16 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-12 23:09 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 08:35 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 08:44 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-12 23:50 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:14 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-13 05:24 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 07:35 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 01:01 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 10:39 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 09:34 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2015-09-14 12:31 -0700
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 08:53 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-09-15 10:22 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:08 +0200
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 09:32 -0500
                Re: Relativistic Radio Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 09:31 -0500

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