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Groups > comp.lang.c > #126690
| Subject | Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| References | (11 earlier) <p5u958$e9d$1@dont-email.me> <p5vanl$bl8$1@news.albasani.net> <feh7j8Fhu2iU1@mid.individual.net> <wRLgC.30074$w26.11712@fx47.am4> <fehkmfFhu2iU2@mid.individual.net> |
| From | bartc <bc@freeuk.com> |
| Message-ID | <moXgC.4620$VP3.3316@fx06.am4> (permalink) |
| Organization | virginmedia.com |
| Date | 2018-02-14 14:07 +0000 |
On 14/02/2018 02:19, Ian Collins wrote: > On 02/14/2018 01:59 PM, bartc wrote: >> Yours is a different world I think. > > I only tinker round the edges with llvm, enough to understand how best > to use the tools on other projects. > > I would have thought as a language developer you would welcome tools > that do all of the back-end legwork for you. Where's the fun in that? And if you do that, why not let others design the language as well? The you don't have to do ANYTHING! The whole point of this is doing it all yourself, using simple approaches, and ending up with something that is small as well as simple. That approach worked extremely well in the 80s (it had to), and it's fun doing the same now. Anyway, if I wanted a professional back-end, I can just emit C source and run gcc-O3 or MSVC /O2 on it (or someone else can run clang). /I/ don't need to be involved with those products or for them to affect the development, which most of the time will be tested with my own back-end. > All you would have to do > is generate LLVM bitcode and the llvm tools would handle the reset for > any supported platform I haven't looked at it for a while, but I understood then you used a library to do that, and that library has a C++ interface. But I've also seen intermediate code written as source that could conceivably be written by any program. The problem is, it's complicated. And that fact is, the difference in performance between by own crappy code generators, and the best from a professional compiler, is usually not significant when measured across a real application rather than some benchmark which might show a 500% benefit using gcc. Some figures I posted yesterday showed a 20% improvement on one test, using gcc or MSVC, for a computationally intensive app (no outside libraries being called). The advantage is I can use a very simple 0.5M toolchain and not rely on thousands of files and tens or hundreds of MB of programs of some sprawling installation. -- bartc
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Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2018-02-10 12:41 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2018-02-10 13:38 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-11 00:32 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-02-10 17:23 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2018-02-11 13:53 +0300
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-11 13:26 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-02-11 13:04 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-11 01:34 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-02-10 17:42 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-02-10 17:50 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-02-14 11:54 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-02-14 12:14 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-11 04:48 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-02-10 22:35 -0700
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-11 13:25 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-11 11:18 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-11 21:57 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-12 14:10 +1300
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 11:11 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2018-02-12 20:33 +0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 13:43 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-02-12 06:05 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-13 07:13 +1300
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-13 01:17 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-13 09:55 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-13 12:28 -0600
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-14 11:36 +1300
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-14 00:59 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-14 15:19 +1300
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-14 14:07 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-03-06 15:46 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-13 20:31 -0600
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-14 15:42 +1300
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-14 01:13 -0600
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-21 15:13 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-02-21 08:43 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-21 19:21 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-02-21 12:25 -0600
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-02-21 19:28 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-02-21 18:29 -0600
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-22 08:33 +1300
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-14 14:48 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-14 11:54 -0600
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-13 20:41 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-12 00:00 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 00:59 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-12 12:29 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 12:18 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-12 15:27 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 15:19 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-12 16:49 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 17:16 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-13 07:30 +1300
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-12 22:37 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 22:15 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-13 17:05 +1300
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-13 11:11 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-13 10:32 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-13 11:10 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language gordonb.5itdn@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2018-02-14 12:57 -0600
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-14 20:29 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language gordonb.nrdl0@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2018-02-14 19:22 -0600
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-15 14:59 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-13 04:00 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-13 14:46 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-13 08:49 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-02-13 09:52 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-13 13:47 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-13 05:11 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-13 14:49 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-02-13 21:52 +0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-13 14:45 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-02-13 07:45 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2018-02-13 05:35 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-13 13:21 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-13 13:24 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Egor <egor@ruby.local> - 2018-02-13 13:14 +0200
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-02-13 04:38 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Egor <egor@ruby.local> - 2018-02-14 13:25 +0200
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-13 13:39 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Egor <egor@ruby.local> - 2018-02-14 13:42 +0200
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-02-15 13:17 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-11 04:41 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2018-02-12 17:25 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-02-12 17:28 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2018-02-12 21:01 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 17:51 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-12 19:28 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 20:02 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-12 23:32 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-13 10:42 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-13 13:26 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-02-13 08:06 -0500
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2018-02-13 15:16 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-02-13 14:53 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-13 15:22 -0600
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-02-12 12:26 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2018-02-12 23:45 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-02-12 15:52 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2018-02-12 17:13 -0800
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2018-02-12 21:15 +0100
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-02-12 21:42 +0000
Re: C2 Aims to Modernize the C Language Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2018-02-12 23:21 +0100
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