Re: Sequence points and commit to memory

From	glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Sequence points and commit to memory
Date	2015-05-19 23:20 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<mjggf0$u7$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(9 earlier) <555A7049.6010405@verizon.net> <mjdv04$3k5$1@speranza.aioe.org> <mjea5a$v64$1@dont-email.me> <mjel16$ats$1@speranza.aioe.org> <mjemt5$rc$1@dont-email.me>

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David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

(snip, I wrote)
>> Imprecise interrupts occur on processors with out-of-order execution
>> and, further, out-of-order retirement. (Many processors now have
>> out-of-order execution, but manage to arrange things such that the
>> effects happen in order.)
 
(snip)

>> I suspect that the causes of imprecise interrupts already cause UB,
>> such that it doesn't matter. They do make debugging harder, though.
 
>> Some causes of imprecise interrupts are overflow, underflow,
>> divide by zero, protection (accessing memory that doesn't belong
>> to you), unaligned memory access. When one of those occurs, the
>> CPU has to finish instructions that have already started, possibly
>> generaring more interrupts. 

The CPU that I most knew imprecise interrupts on was an IBM 360/91.
Some other large 360's and 370's also had them, but most not as many
as the 91. 
 
(snip)
>> Mostly, imprecise interrupts went away when vitual storage arrived.
>> If you can't identify the instruction causing a page fault, it isn't
>> possible to do the page-in and restart. Instructions can't change
>> any permanent state until it is known that no page fault will occur.
 
> That is not exactly the way I think of the term "imprecise interrupt".
> Terminology and details vary somewhat between processor architectures,
> but I believe that in the more complex cpus I have worked with, there is
> a distinction between asynchronous interrupts (caused by an external
> source rather than the instruction stream), precise exceptions
> (including divide-by-zero, address errors, etc.), and imprecise
> exceptions (which might include floating point assist exceptions).

For the 360/91, fixed point overflow, fixed point divide, 
floating point underflow, floating point overflow, and floating point
divide all generate imprecise interrupts. 
 
> For a precise exception, when the exception handler is entered you know
> exactly which instruction caused it.  All instructions prior to the
> faulting one have completed, while none of the following instructions
> have started (or their effects have been rolled back).

Yes.
 
> For an imprecise exception, there may be overlap in the pipelining - it
> works more like an unusual form of function call instruction.
 
-- glen

Thread

Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 11:43 +0100
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-14 12:02 +0100
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-14 13:39 +0200
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-14 13:18 +0100
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-14 23:11 +0200
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-05-14 09:06 -0500
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-14 08:35 -0700
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 10:23 -0700
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-14 10:44 -0700
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 11:09 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-14 12:58 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-14 16:31 -0500
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-14 17:24 -0700
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-14 20:18 -0500
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-15 09:34 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-15 10:18 -0500
                Re: 'register' attribute (was: Sequence points and commit to memory) Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-16 01:26 -0500
                Re: 'register' attribute David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-17 00:02 +0200
                Re: 'register' attribute Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-16 19:29 -0500
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 09:52 -0700
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-15 13:27 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-15 10:50 -0700
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-15 12:32 -0500
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-14 23:23 +0200
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 09:42 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-15 13:13 -0400
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 08:32 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-15 10:35 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-15 11:08 -0700
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-15 16:40 -0500
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 08:48 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 21:46 +0100
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 08:56 -0700
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 19:35 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-18 09:49 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-19 09:04 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-19 08:42 -0700
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 22:00 +0100
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-14 14:26 -0700
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 22:33 +0100
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-14 23:38 +0200
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 23:04 +0100
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-05-15 13:09 -0500
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 21:56 +0100
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-15 17:30 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 07:51 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-16 22:10 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 00:25 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 18:55 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 09:10 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-19 12:05 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 18:42 +0200
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-05-16 16:33 -0500
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 00:27 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 19:05 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-19 00:09 +0000
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-19 01:11 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-23 07:02 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 23:21 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-19 06:25 +0000
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 08:58 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-19 23:20 +0000
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-20 12:31 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-19 12:10 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-19 23:24 +0000
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 09:05 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-19 08:37 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-19 12:14 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 19:02 +0200
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-15 16:46 -0500
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-17 00:20 +0200
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-17 18:19 +0100
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-17 16:11 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-18 08:30 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-18 10:31 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-18 11:11 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-19 09:37 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-19 17:40 +1200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-19 01:31 -0500
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-19 20:38 +1200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-19 10:50 -0500
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 00:46 +0200
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 00:35 +0200
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-15 16:42 -0500
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 07:58 +0100
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-16 02:18 -0500
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 08:36 +0100
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-17 04:31 -0500
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-17 18:24 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 00:55 +0200
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-14 11:26 -0700
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 22:07 +0100
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-14 14:22 -0700
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 22:36 +0100
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-22 08:16 -0700
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-22 11:31 -0700
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-15 00:05 -0400
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 22:25 +0100
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-15 17:56 -0400
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2015-05-17 10:04 +0100
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-24 08:11 -0700

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