Re: Sequence points and commit to memory

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Sequence points and commit to memory
Date	2015-05-19 08:58 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<mjemt5$rc$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <mjdouv$gdj$2@dont-email.me> <555A7049.6010405@verizon.net> <mjdv04$3k5$1@speranza.aioe.org> <mjea5a$v64$1@dont-email.me> <mjel16$ats$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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On 19/05/15 08:25, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> (snip)
>>>> On a platform which supports interrupts, a conforming implementation of
>>>> C must generate code that will still produce the behavior defined by the
>>>> standard for the source code. 
> 
> (snip, then I wrote)
>>> How about on CPUs that support imprecise interrupts?
>  
>> I'm unfamiliar with that term. Is there any conceivable method to
>> generate code that has the behavior defined by the standard, even if
>> execution of that code is interrupted by imprecise interrupts? 
> 
> Imprecise interrupts occur on processors with out-of-order execution
> and, further, out-of-order retirement. (Many processors now have
> out-of-order execution, but manage to arrange things such that the
> effects happen in order.)
> 
>> If so,
>> whatever approach needs to be taken to achieve that result is mandatory
>> for conforming implementations of C on those platforms. If not,
>> conforming implementations of C are not possible on those platforms.
> 
> I suspect that the causes of imprecise interrupts already cause UB,
> such that it doesn't matter. They do make debugging harder, though.
> 
> Some causes of imprecise interrupts are overflow, underflow,
> divide by zero, protection (accessing memory that doesn't belong
> to you), unaligned memory access. When one of those occurs, the
> CPU has to finish instructions that have already started, possibly
> generaring more interrupts. 
> 
> But debuggers might not be able to report the cause of a protection
> or alignment violation. 
> 
> Mostly, imprecise interrupts went away when vitual storage arrived.
> If you can't identify the instruction causing a page fault, it isn't
> possible to do the page-in and restart. Instructions can't change
> any permanent state until it is known that no page fault will occur.
> 

That is not exactly the way I think of the term "imprecise interrupt".
Terminology and details vary somewhat between processor architectures,
but I believe that in the more complex cpus I have worked with, there is
a distinction between asynchronous interrupts (caused by an external
source rather than the instruction stream), precise exceptions
(including divide-by-zero, address errors, etc.), and imprecise
exceptions (which might include floating point assist exceptions).

For a precise exception, when the exception handler is entered you know
exactly which instruction caused it.  All instructions prior to the
faulting one have completed, while none of the following instructions
have started (or their effects have been rolled back).

For an imprecise exception, there may be overlap in the pipelining - it
works more like an unusual form of function call instruction.

Thread

Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 11:43 +0100
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-14 12:02 +0100
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-14 13:39 +0200
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-14 13:18 +0100
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-14 23:11 +0200
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-05-14 09:06 -0500
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-14 08:35 -0700
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 10:23 -0700
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-14 10:44 -0700
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 11:09 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-14 12:58 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-14 16:31 -0500
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-14 17:24 -0700
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-14 20:18 -0500
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-15 09:34 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-15 10:18 -0500
                Re: 'register' attribute (was: Sequence points and commit to memory) Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-16 01:26 -0500
                Re: 'register' attribute David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-17 00:02 +0200
                Re: 'register' attribute Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-16 19:29 -0500
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 09:52 -0700
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-15 13:27 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-15 10:50 -0700
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-15 12:32 -0500
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-14 23:23 +0200
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 09:42 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-15 13:13 -0400
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 08:32 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-15 10:35 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-15 11:08 -0700
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-15 16:40 -0500
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 08:48 -0700
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 21:46 +0100
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 08:56 -0700
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 19:35 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-18 09:49 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-19 09:04 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-19 08:42 -0700
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 22:00 +0100
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-14 14:26 -0700
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 22:33 +0100
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-14 23:38 +0200
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 23:04 +0100
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-05-15 13:09 -0500
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 21:56 +0100
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-15 17:30 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 07:51 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-16 22:10 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 00:25 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 18:55 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 09:10 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-19 12:05 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 18:42 +0200
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-05-16 16:33 -0500
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 00:27 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 19:05 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-19 00:09 +0000
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-19 01:11 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-23 07:02 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 23:21 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-19 06:25 +0000
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 08:58 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-19 23:20 +0000
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-20 12:31 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-19 12:10 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-19 23:24 +0000
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 09:05 +0200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-19 08:37 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-19 12:14 -0400
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 19:02 +0200
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-15 16:46 -0500
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-17 00:20 +0200
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-17 18:19 +0100
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-17 16:11 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-18 08:30 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-18 10:31 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-18 11:11 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-19 09:37 -0700
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-19 17:40 +1200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-19 01:31 -0500
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-19 20:38 +1200
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-19 10:50 -0500
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 00:46 +0200
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 00:35 +0200
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-15 16:42 -0500
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 07:58 +0100
          Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-16 02:18 -0500
            Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 08:36 +0100
              Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-17 04:31 -0500
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-17 18:24 +0100
                Re: Sequence points and commit to memory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-19 00:55 +0200
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-14 11:26 -0700
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 22:07 +0100
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-14 14:22 -0700
        Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 22:36 +0100
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-22 08:16 -0700
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-22 11:31 -0700
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-15 00:05 -0400
    Re: Sequence points and commit to memory "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 22:25 +0100
      Re: Sequence points and commit to memory James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-15 17:56 -0400
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2015-05-17 10:04 +0100
  Re: Sequence points and commit to memory Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-24 08:11 -0700

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