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Re: Hello World

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nospam wrote:
> In article <mdla9p$jeo$1@dont-email.me>, DMcCunney
> <dennis.mccunney@gmail.com> wrote:

> today, modern c++ compilers are better than c compilers for many
> reasons and produce faster code with fewer bugs. everyone wins.

In many cases yes, assuming there's a C++ compiler for your target platform.

>> There's still an awful lot of C code in the wild.
>
> so what? there's an awful lot of cobol code in the wild too.

And there's a reason who both continue to exist.

>>> apps that are native code run faster and give a much better user
>>> experience.
>>
>> Native code may be faster, but user experience is based on many things,
>> and speed is only one.  From use user's perspective, the question isn't
>> "How fast is it", it's "Is it fast *enough?*"  If it is, the speed
>> advantage from native code is irrelevant, and the easier development and
>> shorter development cycles using something like Java or Python become
>> compelling.
>
> speed is a key component. user interface design is another but that has
> nothing to do with the choice of language.

You use the language suited from what you are trying to write.  If you 
are writing systems software, you probably use C++ (though if 
parallelism is a concern, you might use Go, and for systems software you 
might try Rust instead.)

An old friend develops software for financial applications.  He uses K. 
  He claims (and I have no reason to doubt him) that he can deliver 
completed applications in the time it takes developers in other 
languages to estimate how long it will take to develop the requested 
application in the language they use.

Different languages address different problem domains.

>>> microsoft's compiler was not standards compliant.
>>>
>>> blame them, not the language.
>>
>> I blame programmers who weren't versed in the standard, and thought what
>> Visual C++ did was the way they all did it.
>
> blame microsoft for that. microsoft intentionally twisted the standard
> for lock-in.

I blame Microsoft for twisting the standard (and in various instances 
trying to make what *they* chose to do the standard.) That does not 
excuse a programmer working in an area where the standard is important 
not being *aware* that MS C++ was not standards compliant, and that code 
that worked in it might not build elsewhere.

>>>> I have IBM's Eclipse IDE written in Java here.  I run the *same* binary on
>>>> Windows and Linux.
>>>
>>> that doesn't work well in practice.
>>
>> It's not easy to achieve, but *is* achievable.  See my example of
>> Eclipse above.  And if you do it, it's a lot faster and simpler to
>> develop than writing in something like C++, getting it portable, then
>> cross compiling for different architectures.
>
> eclipse is awful.

There are many IDEs.  Each has devoted adherents.  The advantage to 
Eclipse is that it's cross platform and extensible, can support 
development in pretty much any language, and looks and acts the same 
where ever you run it.  There are reasons it has become the most used 
IDE.  (I just encountered two different software development kits from 
two different outfits targeting the embedded space that used Eclipse and 
GCC as the basis for their toolchain.)

Understood you don't like it, but don't assume you're representative.

>>>> Modern hardware is fast and powerful enough that you can write in
>>>> something like Python and get good enough performance that you don't
>>>> *have* to compile to native code.
>>>
>>> except that other developers *are* compiling to native code, which
>>> means their apps will be that much better.
>>
>> You may picture me rolling on the floor and laughing hysterically.
>>
>> As an example, an app used daily here is Calibre, from
>> http://calibre-ebook.com.
>
> calibre is a steaming pile of shit and has a user interface only a
> mother could love.

Point at something else you would use instead that can do the same things.

I don't care if it's written in C++ or not.

I don't find the UI a problem, and learned to get around it in quite 
quickly, thank you.

> if that's the best example you can come up with, you've proved my point.

For the record, I don't object to C++, and think it's a fine language. 
I just don't think it's the only fine language, or the only or even the 
best choice in a language.  It depends entirely on the task at hand.
______
Dennis

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Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-07 12:53 -0600
  Re: Hello World Inge Svensson <ingesvensson@bredband.net> - 2015-03-07 19:58 +0100
  Re: Hello World Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-08 15:02 +0000
    Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 14:51 -0500
      Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 20:41 +0000
        Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 20:44 +0000
        Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:51 -0500
          Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:11 -0500
            Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 17:23 -0500
              Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 22:51 +0000
                Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 22:52 +0000
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 21:52 -0500
                Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 12:09 +0000
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 07:52 -0500
                Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 13:31 +0000
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 09:04 -0500
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 11:10 -0500
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 10:14 -0500
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 11:26 -0500
                Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 17:32 +0000
                Re: Hello World DMcCunney <dennis.mccunney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-09 14:57 -0400
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:07 -0500
                Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 16:19 -0400
                Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 22:02 +0000
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 22:36 -0400
                Re: Hello World Tony Cito <tonycito@this.is.invalid> - 2015-03-10 13:23 +0000
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-10 19:50 -0400
                Re: Hello World DMcCunney <dennis.mccunney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-09 19:28 -0400
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-10 19:50 -0400
                Re: Hello World DMcCunney <dennis.mccunney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-10 20:58 -0400
                Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-10 22:31 -0400
                Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 19:14 +0000
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:07 -0500
                Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 13:56 -0400
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:15 -0500
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 16:19 -0500
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:25 -0500
                Re: Hello World Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-03-10 11:23 +0000
                Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 16:37 -0400
                Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 21:58 +0000
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 18:09 -0500
                Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-10 23:43 +0000
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-10 19:50 -0400
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:17 -0500
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 16:19 -0500
                Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 16:27 -0400
                Re: Hello World Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-03-10 15:18 +0000
                Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-10 13:31 +1300
                Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-10 09:29 +1300
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 16:29 -0500
                Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-09 13:26 +1300
        Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:08 -0500
          Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 17:23 -0500
      Re: Hello World Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-09 03:26 +0000
  Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 14:20 +0000
    Re: Hello World BugHunter <bughunter@com.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:42 +0100
      Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 19:05 +0000
    Re: Hello World Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-09 08:12 -0700
    Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 17:48 +0000
      Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 18:30 +0000
        Re: Hello World BugHunter <bughunter@com.invalid> - 2015-03-09 19:35 +0100
      Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 19:11 +0000
        Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-10 12:16 +0000
      Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-10 09:35 +1300
      Re: Hello World "HankG" <hgxrp@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-11 13:58 -0400

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