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Groups > comp.lang.c > #5519

Re: for your languages

From Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: for your languages
Date 2011-06-05 12:33 -0700
Organization None to speak of
Message-ID <lnr578gjj7.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <chine.bleu-EEDDA7.19361702062011@news.eternal-september.org> <lnboyekjhr.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <4dea35ff$0$8875$a729d347@news.telepac.pt> <rubrum-53EF54.13234404062011@news.albasani.net> <4deb6932$0$8878$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>

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Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> writes:
> Michael Press wrote:
>> I don't believe it. An assembly language provides
>> tokens and syntax for fully specifying machine language
>> instructions. An assembly language is exactly as
>> abstract as the stored program digital computer for
>> which it is written.
>
> Please notice that in this thread we are talking about macro-assembly 
> languages.  This distinction is fundamental to this discussion, as it 
> makes it clear that we are discussing assembly languages which explicitly 
> support code abstraction.  That is, the language does more than simply 
> offer a more human-friendly way to set specific opcodes, and is capable of 
> abstracting more than mere individual opcodes.

Is the macro facility provided by a macro-assembly language more
powerful than the macro facility provided by C?  If not, the existence
of macro assemblers does not support your claim that:

    all high level programming languages are macro-assembly languages
    of sorts, varying in their level of abstraction and how their
    macros are implemented and handled.

Given a C source program that uses macros, plus the definitions
of those macros, we can determine exactly what the output of the
C preprocessor is going to look like.  (There might be some corner
cases where the result is undefined or unspecified, but none that
affect the oveall point.)

I assert that, given an assembly source program plus the definitions
of any macros that it uses, we can determine exactly what sequence
of machine code instructions the assembler will generate when given
that source program as input.

Your repeated failure or refusal to provide a counterexample makes
me suspect that my assertion is actually correct, and that you don't
know what you're talking about.  I invite you to prove me wrong.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-05-28 09:08 +0200
  Re: for your languages BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-28 02:48 -0700
    Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-05-29 17:51 +0200
      Re: for your languages Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-16 15:39 -0700
        Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-17 09:55 +0200
          Re: for your languages Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-19 22:21 -0500
            Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-20 09:51 +0200
              Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-20 12:06 +0200
              Re: for your languages Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 10:08 -0500
                Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-07-08 20:06 +0200
  Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-28 11:06 +0100
    Re: for your languages BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-28 03:38 -0700
    Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-28 16:01 +0100
      Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-28 19:36 +0100
        Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-28 21:18 +0100
          Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 12:33 +0100
            Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-29 08:31 -0400
              Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-29 05:37 -0700
                Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-29 09:09 -0400
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-29 07:00 -0700
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-29 16:52 +0100
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 02:18 +0100
                Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-30 22:21 -0400
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-30 20:39 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-29 12:44 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 02:12 +0100
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 10:44 -0700
              Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 02:05 +0100
            Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-29 12:34 -0700
              Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 02:00 +0100
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-31 13:10 +0100
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-31 06:20 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 11:53 -0700
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-31 12:23 +0000
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 17:46 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-31 17:05 +0000
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-01 15:39 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-01 17:53 +0000
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 22:18 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-03 00:44 +0000
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-31 19:04 +0000
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-01 15:44 +0100
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-01 19:40 +0000
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 21:58 +0100
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-02 23:09 +0000
                Re: for your languages Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 21:28 -0500
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 10:41 -0700
    Re: for your languages Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-28 11:15 -0400
      Re: for your languages Lorenzo Villari <vlllnz@tiscali.it> - 2011-05-28 20:05 +0200
        Re: for your languages Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-28 14:16 -0400
    Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-28 12:07 -0700
      Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 12:19 +0100
        Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-29 08:59 -0400
          Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 01:50 +0100
        Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-29 20:36 +0000
          Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 00:28 +0100
            Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-05-30 17:21 -0700
              Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 01:58 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-31 01:27 +0000
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 10:37 -0700
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-05-31 18:34 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-01 15:06 +0100
                Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-06-01 10:30 -0400
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 21:36 +0100
                Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-06-02 22:06 -0400
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-01 18:19 -0700
                Re: for your languages Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 01:06 -0500
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-03 12:02 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 21:34 +0100
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-02 15:53 -0700
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-03 12:24 -0700
            Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-31 01:10 +0000
            Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 10:34 -0700
              Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-01 14:58 +0100
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 21:18 +0100
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-02 13:40 -0700
                Re: for your languages Billy Mays <noway@nohow.com> - 2011-06-02 17:31 -0400
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-03 10:39 -0700
                Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-06-02 22:19 -0400
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-02 19:36 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-03 08:44 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-04 14:41 +0100
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-04 16:31 +0000
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-04 09:51 -0700
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-05 00:05 +0000
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-04 18:31 -0700
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-04 10:02 -0700
                Re: for your languages cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-06-04 22:10 +0000
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-04 18:26 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 13:40 +0100
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-05 15:47 +0000
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-05 10:16 -0700
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-05 10:30 -0700
                Re: for your languages Heikki Kallasjoki <see@end.of.message.invalid> - 2011-06-05 17:38 +0000
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-05 10:49 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-04 09:50 -0700
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-04 13:23 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 12:32 +0100
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-05 07:15 -0700
                Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-06 18:18 +0200
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-06 11:40 -0700
                Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-07 16:57 +0200
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-07 08:36 -0700
                Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-07 18:19 +0200
                Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-07 18:32 +0200
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-05 12:33 -0700
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 13:08 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-05 13:54 -0700
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 18:57 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-05 20:37 -0700
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 20:58 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-05 21:49 -0700
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 22:05 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-06 09:11 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-16 13:00 -0700
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-06 02:04 -0700
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-06 10:21 +0100
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-05 22:47 +0100
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 18:25 -0700
                Re: for your languages Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-06 13:41 +1200
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-06 10:06 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-06 15:39 +0000
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-06 15:39 +0000
        Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 00:44 +0100
          Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 18:09 +0100
            Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 12:00 -0700
              Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-01 15:33 +0100
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-01 09:07 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-01 10:12 -0700
                Re: for your languages BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-01 12:45 -0700
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-03 15:41 +0100
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 13:30 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-06 15:39 +0000
  Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-05-28 03:34 -0700
    Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-05-29 08:42 +0200
  Re: for your languages Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2011-05-29 01:00 +0200
    Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-28 23:49 +0000
      Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-28 18:42 -0700
    Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-28 18:42 -0700

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