Re: for your languages

From	Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: for your languages
Date	2011-06-05 13:54 -0700
Organization	None to speak of
Message-ID	<lnboycgfsv.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> (permalink)
References	(13 earlier) <4dea35ff$0$8875$a729d347@news.telepac.pt> <rubrum-53EF54.13234404062011@news.albasani.net> <4deb6932$0$8878$a729d347@news.telepac.pt> <lnr578gjj7.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <chine.bleu-5E9E0A.13083605062011@news.eternal-september.org>

Show all headers | View raw

China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> writes:
> In article <lnr578gjj7.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> 
> wrote:
>> Is the macro facility provided by a macro-assembly language more
>> powerful than the macro facility provided by C?  If not, the existence
>
> If you even have to ask this question, it means you don't know what is really 
> going on.

You're right, I probably don't.  I haven't programmed in assembly
language since longer ago than I care to admit.  That's why I'm asking
questions, but straight answers seem to be in short supply.

>           Advanced macro processors for assemblers have been Turing machines for 
> a few decades now.

I presume you mean they're Turing-equivalent.

Ok, fine, I'll assume that's accurate.  If so, how does it affect the
underlying claim?  Even if a macro processor is Turing-equivalent,
isn't the output still fully determined by the input?

Since Rui Maciel has so far declined to provide a concrete example,
perhaps you can do so.

In my limited experience, assemblers these days are used
mostly to translate the output of a compiler into machine code.
(Some compilers generate machine code directly, but generating
textual assembly code is presumably easier.)  Such an assembler,
which likely has some kind of macro capability, would serve that
purpose perfectly well by generating only the *exact* sequence of
instructions specified by its input, with no flexibility to perform
optimizations or other transformations.  Any optimizations can be
performed by the compiler itself.

It's been repeatedly claimed that modern macro assemblers aren't
like that.

Show us.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

Thread

for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-05-28 09:08 +0200
  Re: for your languages BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-28 02:48 -0700
    Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-05-29 17:51 +0200
      Re: for your languages Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-16 15:39 -0700
        Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-17 09:55 +0200
          Re: for your languages Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-19 22:21 -0500
            Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-20 09:51 +0200
              Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-20 12:06 +0200
              Re: for your languages Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 10:08 -0500
                Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-07-08 20:06 +0200
  Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-28 11:06 +0100
    Re: for your languages BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-28 03:38 -0700
    Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-28 16:01 +0100
      Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-28 19:36 +0100
        Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-28 21:18 +0100
          Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 12:33 +0100
            Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-29 08:31 -0400
              Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-29 05:37 -0700
                Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-29 09:09 -0400
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-29 07:00 -0700
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-29 16:52 +0100
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 02:18 +0100
                Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-30 22:21 -0400
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-30 20:39 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-29 12:44 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 02:12 +0100
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 10:44 -0700
              Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 02:05 +0100
            Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-29 12:34 -0700
              Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 02:00 +0100
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-31 13:10 +0100
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-31 06:20 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 11:53 -0700
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-31 12:23 +0000
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 17:46 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-31 17:05 +0000
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-01 15:39 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-01 17:53 +0000
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 22:18 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-03 00:44 +0000
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-31 19:04 +0000
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-01 15:44 +0100
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-01 19:40 +0000
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 21:58 +0100
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-02 23:09 +0000
                Re: for your languages Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 21:28 -0500
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 10:41 -0700
    Re: for your languages Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-28 11:15 -0400
      Re: for your languages Lorenzo Villari <vlllnz@tiscali.it> - 2011-05-28 20:05 +0200
        Re: for your languages Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-28 14:16 -0400
    Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-28 12:07 -0700
      Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-29 12:19 +0100
        Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-29 08:59 -0400
          Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 01:50 +0100
        Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-29 20:36 +0000
          Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 00:28 +0100
            Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-05-30 17:21 -0700
              Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 01:58 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-31 01:27 +0000
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 10:37 -0700
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-05-31 18:34 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-01 15:06 +0100
                Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-06-01 10:30 -0400
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 21:36 +0100
                Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-06-02 22:06 -0400
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-01 18:19 -0700
                Re: for your languages Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 01:06 -0500
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-03 12:02 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 21:34 +0100
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-02 15:53 -0700
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-03 12:24 -0700
            Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-31 01:10 +0000
            Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 10:34 -0700
              Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-01 14:58 +0100
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-02 21:18 +0100
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-02 13:40 -0700
                Re: for your languages Billy Mays <noway@nohow.com> - 2011-06-02 17:31 -0400
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-03 10:39 -0700
                Re: for your languages James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-06-02 22:19 -0400
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-02 19:36 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-03 08:44 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-04 14:41 +0100
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-04 16:31 +0000
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-04 09:51 -0700
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-05 00:05 +0000
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-04 18:31 -0700
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-04 10:02 -0700
                Re: for your languages cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-06-04 22:10 +0000
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-04 18:26 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 13:40 +0100
                Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-05 15:47 +0000
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-05 10:16 -0700
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-05 10:30 -0700
                Re: for your languages Heikki Kallasjoki <see@end.of.message.invalid> - 2011-06-05 17:38 +0000
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-05 10:49 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-04 09:50 -0700
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-04 13:23 -0700
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 12:32 +0100
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-05 07:15 -0700
                Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-06 18:18 +0200
                Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-06-06 11:40 -0700
                Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-07 16:57 +0200
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-07 08:36 -0700
                Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-07 18:19 +0200
                Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-07 18:32 +0200
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-05 12:33 -0700
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 13:08 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-05 13:54 -0700
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 18:57 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-05 20:37 -0700
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 20:58 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-05 21:49 -0700
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 22:05 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-06 09:11 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-16 13:00 -0700
                Re: for your languages Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-06-06 02:04 -0700
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-06 10:21 +0100
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-05 22:47 +0100
                Re: for your languages China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 18:25 -0700
                Re: for your languages Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-06 13:41 +1200
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-06 10:06 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-06 15:39 +0000
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-06 15:39 +0000
        Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 00:44 +0100
          Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 18:09 +0100
            Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 12:00 -0700
              Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-01 15:33 +0100
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-01 09:07 -0700
                Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-01 10:12 -0700
                Re: for your languages BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-01 12:45 -0700
                Re: for your languages "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-03 15:41 +0100
                Re: for your languages Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 13:30 +0100
                Re: for your languages Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-06 15:39 +0000
  Re: for your languages "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl> - 2011-05-28 03:34 -0700
    Re: for your languages "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-05-29 08:42 +0200
  Re: for your languages Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2011-05-29 01:00 +0200
    Re: for your languages Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-28 23:49 +0000
      Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-28 18:42 -0700
    Re: for your languages Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-28 18:42 -0700

csiph-web