Re: malloc and maximum size

From	Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: malloc and maximum size
Date	2011-10-14 16:27 -0700
Organization	None to speak of
Message-ID	<lnaa93rw5t.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <44r52f760i.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <4E988AC3.6050701@verizon.net> <44mxd373wl.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <4E989DDC.8040900@verizon.net> <44pqhztcty.fsf@lowell-desk.lan>

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Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> writes:
> James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> writes:
[...]
>> Not even sizeof(char[3500000000])? For an implementation where
>> (size_t)(-1) is 4294967295, what gives that implementation permission to
>> do anything with that expression other than yield a value of
>> (size_t)3500000000? The implementation is free to issue a diagnostic, of
>> course, but not to reject the code.
>
> Okay, I see where you're going with this; the fact that the
> implementation can't instantiate the type doesn't keep it from
> recognizing that type.  What I'm not getting (and I have, indeed,
> looked in the standard) is what *requires* the implementation to
> accept the "sizeof(char[3500000000])".  I'm sure the implementation
> *can* accept it, and I suspect that most will, but I haven't found
> such a requirement.  Your question about what gives it permission is
> backwards; the implementation doesn't need permission if it hasn't
> been required to do otherwise.

I don't think James is going at it backwards.  I will now argue both
sides of this.

What (arguably) requires the implementation to accept
"sizeof(char[3500000000])" is the same thing that requires it to
accept "sizeof(char[10])", namely the sections discussing the sizeof
operator, the char type, integer constants, and array types.

C99 5.2.4.1 discusses translation limits (127 nesting levels of blocks,
63 nesting levels of conditional inclusion, etc.).  It requires an
implementation to accept 65535 bytes in an object, but that doesn't
apply to the above expression, since it doesn't refer to an object.

On the other hand, 5.2.4.1 doesn't even say that an implementation
must always accept 65535 bytes in an object.  It says:

    The implementation shall be able to translate and execute at least
    one program that contains at least one instance of every one of the
    following limits:

followed by a list of limits.  By rejecting "sizeof(char[3500000000])",
gcc isn't violating any requirement in 5.2.4.1; presumably it does
translate and execute that one program (which doesn't include an
instance of "sizeof(char[3500000000])".

Presumably an implementation may legitimately reject a program violating
some limit not listed in 5.2.4.1, such as a trillion-line translation
unit.  So I *think* that rejecting any program referring to a type
bigger than 2**31 bytes is permitted.  But I'm not 100% certain.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

Thread

malloc and maximum size "V.Subramanian, India" <subramanian100in@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-14 06:31 -0700
  Re: malloc and maximum size gordonb.pey1d@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-10-14 09:45 -0500
    Re: malloc and maximum size Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2011-10-14 11:10 -0400
      Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 11:40 -0400
        Re: malloc and maximum size Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2011-10-14 15:00 -0400
          Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 15:17 -0400
            Re: malloc and maximum size Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2011-10-14 15:46 -0400
              Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 16:38 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2011-10-14 21:59 +0000
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 18:26 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2011-10-14 18:42 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 16:27 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-14 20:41 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 18:31 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-15 02:58 +0100
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 22:11 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 22:59 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-14 23:44 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 22:56 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-15 07:52 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:54 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:51 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 22:51 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 22:48 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-15 07:54 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-15 11:25 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-15 21:21 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 17:41 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-25 02:11 +0000
                Re: malloc and maximum size Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-15 11:50 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-15 21:38 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 17:33 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 17:06 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:58 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-25 01:23 +0000
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-31 16:31 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 22:20 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 16:03 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 23:01 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 17:35 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-25 02:33 +0000
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-31 17:14 -0800
              Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:45 -0800
            Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:32 -0800
              Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-25 02:40 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-31 17:27 -0800
          Re: malloc and maximum size Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-14 16:17 -0400
            Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 16:52 -0400
              Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 16:12 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 23:04 -0400
          Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:36 -0800
    Re: malloc and maximum size Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2011-10-14 16:49 +0000
  Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 11:05 -0400
  Re: malloc and maximum size Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-10-14 16:11 +0100
  Re: malloc and maximum size Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-10-14 12:24 -0400
  Re: malloc and maximum size jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2011-10-14 17:10 +0000
  Re: malloc and maximum size Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2011-10-14 13:43 -0500
    Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 12:03 -0700
      Re: malloc and maximum size jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2011-10-14 20:36 +0000
    Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:26 -0800
  Re: malloc and maximum size Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-10-17 17:21 +0000
  Re: malloc and maximum size Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 23:49 -0500
    Re: malloc and maximum size Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 23:55 -0500

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