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Re: malloc and maximum size

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On 2012-01-25, Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> writes:
>> As I'm sure you're already aware, 5.2.4.1 is one of my least favorite
>> clauses in the standard. Taking it's words literally, what it fails to
>> promise renders virtually the entire rest of the standard meaningless;
>> [snip]
>
> I'm sure that's true for some, but most people who read
> the Standard have no real problem with it.  Show of hands,
> anyone?

5.2.4.1 simply gives a set of requirements in such a way that it is clear
that all of the limits are independent. An implementation should be able to
translate a program which exercises each of the limits /simultaneously/.
That is the point. The implementation canot assert that, oops, since you
declared an object of 65535 bytes, you can only have 63 nesting of blocks, and
not the required 127.

At the same time, it is not right to require an implementation to be able to
handle EVERY program which contains an instance of each of the limits.  That
category includes arbitrarily large programs. Moreover, it is not a testable
requirement because the set of programs is infinite.

Should the requirement say "three programs"? Fifty? One program is enough to
show that the limits can be hit concurrently.

There is clearly no intent there that conformance is hinged to a single test
case which exercises some limits. Such a program does not have anywhere near
the required coverage anyway to properly test a compiler. Nowhere is it
stated that if the implementation translates at least one such a program, it is
blessed as conforming and the job is done. "shall" does not mean "shall only".

The standard does not provide any acceptance test suite (and that does not
make it meaningless either).  It is meant to be used as a kind of "contract"
between implementors and users. It's clear to everyone involved that there are
numerous detailed requirements given in the standard, and that users want to
see the requirements implemented earnestly so that a wide range of programs can
be translated and not just a few hand-picked ones.  It's up to the parties to
decide what constitutes an acceptance test.  There often isn't one. If the
compiler isn't freeware, you may have some customer support, and failing that,
a "money back" type warranty where liability is limited to a refund of the
purchase price.

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malloc and maximum size "V.Subramanian, India" <subramanian100in@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-14 06:31 -0700
  Re: malloc and maximum size gordonb.pey1d@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-10-14 09:45 -0500
    Re: malloc and maximum size Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2011-10-14 11:10 -0400
      Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 11:40 -0400
        Re: malloc and maximum size Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2011-10-14 15:00 -0400
          Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 15:17 -0400
            Re: malloc and maximum size Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2011-10-14 15:46 -0400
              Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 16:38 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2011-10-14 21:59 +0000
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 18:26 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2011-10-14 18:42 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 16:27 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-14 20:41 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 18:31 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-10-15 02:58 +0100
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 22:11 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 22:59 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-14 23:44 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 22:56 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-15 07:52 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:54 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:51 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 22:51 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 22:48 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-15 07:54 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-15 11:25 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-15 21:21 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 17:41 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-25 02:11 +0000
                Re: malloc and maximum size Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-15 11:50 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-15 21:38 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 17:33 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 17:06 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:58 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-25 01:23 +0000
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-31 16:31 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 22:20 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 16:03 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 23:01 -0400
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 17:35 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-25 02:33 +0000
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-31 17:14 -0800
              Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:45 -0800
            Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:32 -0800
              Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-25 02:40 -0800
                Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-31 17:27 -0800
          Re: malloc and maximum size Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-10-14 16:17 -0400
            Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 16:52 -0400
              Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 16:12 -0700
                Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 23:04 -0400
          Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:36 -0800
    Re: malloc and maximum size Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2011-10-14 16:49 +0000
  Re: malloc and maximum size James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-10-14 11:05 -0400
  Re: malloc and maximum size Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-10-14 16:11 +0100
  Re: malloc and maximum size Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-10-14 12:24 -0400
  Re: malloc and maximum size jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2011-10-14 17:10 +0000
  Re: malloc and maximum size Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2011-10-14 13:43 -0500
    Re: malloc and maximum size Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-10-14 12:03 -0700
      Re: malloc and maximum size jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2011-10-14 20:36 +0000
    Re: malloc and maximum size Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 16:26 -0800
  Re: malloc and maximum size Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-10-17 17:21 +0000
  Re: malloc and maximum size Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 23:49 -0500
    Re: malloc and maximum size Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 23:55 -0500

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