Re: gforth too bloated ?

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: gforth too bloated ?
Date	2014-05-22 13:36 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<lllciv$fat$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(9 earlier) <d7KdnSK_fIqUjuTOnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@supernews.com> <lljkc5$7dc$1@dont-email.me> <1dsoyq1s0nn90$.15fej7nvcv6j0.dlg@40tude.net> <2014May22.120425@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <9aof6b811j9q.xdlnk27of0bt$.dlg@40tude.net>

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On 5/22/2014 9:39 AM, Coos Haak wrote:
> Op Thu, 22 May 2014 10:04:25 GMT schreef Anton Ertl:
>
>> Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> writes:
>>> Op Wed, 21 May 2014 21:37:09 -0400 schreef rickman:
>>>> Oddly in the GA144 subtraction is best done the other way round, y - x.
>>>>    Since it has no subtract instruction the user must code it by
>>>> complementing the top of stack, adding a one and then adding the two top
>>>> elements.  Because the carry is relatively slow this is a five
>>>> instruction sequence.  Or you can complement the top of stack, do the
>>>> add and then complement the result saving one instruction space and
>>>> time.  However this implements y-x rather than x-y.  But what is really
>>>> spooky is that every time I have needed a subtraction it was easier to
>>>> get the operands in the order of y-x than it was x-y anyway.  Since the
>>>> GA144 has no swap instruction this was a double benefit.
>>>>
>>>> Strange chip...
>>>
>>> I don't have a GA144, but I tried a normal 2-complement Forth.
>>> Your first method:
>>> 100 70  ok
>>> invert .s ( 100 -71 )  ok
>>> 1+ .s ( 100 -70 )  ok
>>> + . 30  ok
>>>
>>> Your second method:
>>> 100 70  ok
>>> invert .s ( 100 -71 )  ok
>>> + .s ( 29 )  ok
>>> 1+ . 30  ok
>>
>> His second method is:
>>
>> 100 70 .s <2> 100 70  ok
>> invert .s <2> 100 -71  ok
>> + .s <1> 29  ok
>> invert . -30  ok
>>
>> - anton
>
> As usual, I was hasty, you're right.

I think I am missing the point of any of this.  I'm also not clear on 
what *my* first and second approaches are...

I guess you mean the conventional way of forming a two's complement of 
the TOS and adding vs the method that is shorter on the GA144 of 
complementing the TOS, then adding and complementing the result.  Both 
perform subtraction, but the second method reverses the operands 
equivalent to SWAP - in forth.  I got this from reading Chuck's blog and 
programming notes on the GA144.  It is a shame that the chip is so 
limited in so many ways other than the CPU design.

-- 

Rick

Thread

gforth too bloated ? Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 13:06 -0700
  Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-07 13:31 -0700
    Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-08 00:10 +0200
      Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-07 23:21 -0700
        Re: gforth too bloated ? Laurent Laborde <kerdezixe@gmail.com> - 2014-05-08 04:07 -0700
        Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-08 14:21 +0200
        Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-09 17:36 +0000
      Re: gforth too bloated ? dambere@web.de - 2014-05-09 15:01 -0700
        Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-10 00:05 +0200
        Re: gforth too bloated ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2014-05-10 00:30 +0200
          Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-10 09:16 +0000
        Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-10 03:27 +0000
          Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-09 20:42 -0700
    Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 22:32 -0400
      Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-07 21:06 -0700
      Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-09 04:14 -0500
        Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 13:42 -0400
          Re: gforth too bloated ? Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 11:48 -0700
            Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 15:18 -0400
          Re: gforth too bloated ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-09 09:19 -1000
            Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-09 15:30 -0400
              Re: gforth too bloated ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-09 13:21 -1000
          Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-10 05:16 -0500
            Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-10 05:28 -0500
              Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-10 10:39 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-10 12:04 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-11 12:10 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bill Long <blongo@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 13:11 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Stan Barr <plan.b@dsl.pipex.com> - 2014-05-11 16:17 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bill Long <blongo@gmail.com> - 2014-05-11 17:10 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-11 08:34 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-11 22:12 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-12 00:38 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-12 00:35 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-11 23:29 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-11 23:37 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-11 23:40 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-12 00:39 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-12 10:20 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-12 05:10 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-13 09:17 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-13 04:28 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-12 03:19 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-13 16:40 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-13 07:56 -1000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-14 11:52 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-14 08:15 -1000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-16 16:09 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-16 09:42 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-16 17:21 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-16 10:45 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-13 12:56 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-14 12:03 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-14 09:17 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-14 16:50 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? AKK <akk@nospam.org> - 2014-05-14 20:26 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-05-14 20:38 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-14 20:02 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-15 14:22 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-15 17:39 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-15 15:03 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-15 15:06 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-15 15:32 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-16 02:13 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-15 20:18 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-16 04:08 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-16 04:28 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-16 09:23 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-17 07:52 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-17 09:19 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-17 11:51 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Samuel DEVULDER <samuel-dot-devulder-at-laposte-dot-net> - 2014-05-17 22:00 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-16 09:20 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-17 07:54 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-16 15:51 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-05-16 07:59 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-16 13:39 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-16 01:22 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-16 04:11 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-05-16 15:43 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-16 01:26 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-16 03:42 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-16 13:19 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-16 17:59 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-18 13:20 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-18 14:08 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-18 10:07 -1000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 21:37 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-05-22 10:06 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-22 10:04 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-05-22 15:39 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 13:36 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-20 11:59 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-05-20 07:11 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-20 14:48 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-21 20:27 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 02:23 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 14:51 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 13:41 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-21 17:41 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 14:41 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-21 17:40 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 14:16 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-17 21:09 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-15 03:57 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-15 15:50 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-15 10:07 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-16 16:33 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-17 08:04 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-17 19:03 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-18 04:06 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-19 01:38 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-20 13:38 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-20 21:39 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-21 15:49 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-17 20:30 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-17 17:59 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-18 04:08 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-18 11:07 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-18 11:15 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-18 12:11 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-20 12:36 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-05-20 07:17 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-05-20 16:26 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-20 09:27 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-20 15:48 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-20 18:35 +0100
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-21 03:45 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-21 14:28 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-21 11:56 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-21 20:54 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-22 14:06 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-22 17:02 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 13:05 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-23 19:19 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-22 14:30 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-22 12:09 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-21 17:22 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 14:03 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-20 16:57 +0100
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-20 21:28 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-20 21:56 +0100
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-21 00:21 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-21 21:42 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-22 02:15 +0200
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-23 14:47 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-21 14:12 +0000
                Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-21 21:24 +0000
              Re: gforth too bloated ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-10 12:00 +0000
              Re: gforth too bloated ? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-10 13:16 -0400
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-10 11:05 -0700
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-10 18:11 -0500
                Re: gforth too bloated ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-11 02:12 +0200
    Re: gforth too bloated ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-09 16:36 +0000
  Re: gforth too bloated ? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 20:01 -0700

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