Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #13391
| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.electronics.design, comp.arch.embedded |
| Subject | Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? |
| Date | 2013-09-08 14:03 -0400 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <l0ie6c$a40$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (8 earlier) <b8v5o1Fk9f7U1@mid.individual.net> <l0e8cm$2i7$1@dont-email.me> <3bfm29ldsoe1n36flb09hclcgj5tv1gebl@4ax.com> <l0fnfe$5sl$1@dont-email.me> <pa4p29dkdi54spblpb5k9ehv7lv31e3v7q@4ax.com> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 9/8/2013 11:19 AM, krw@attt.bizz wrote: > On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 13:23:48 -0400, rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 9/7/2013 11:17 AM, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>> On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 23:59:59 -0400, rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 9/6/2013 7:10 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>>> That is often the problem. Sometimes a buck fifty is the pain threshold. >>>>> Not in this ATMega case, the 2560 is very expensive but comes with lots >>>>> of ADC and analog muxes and all that. Things that will cost extra with a >>>>> FPGA solution and eat real estate. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For $3 however, you can get a >>>>>> chip large enough for a CPU (with math) and room for your special logic. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For $3 I can get a big DSP. >>>> >>>> What "big" DSP can you get for $3? It has been a while since I looked >>>> hard at DSP chips, but I don't recall any I would call remotely "big" >>>> for $3. The TI chips that would be "big" are the TMS6xxx line which >>>> start somewhere around $20 the last time I looked and that requires all >>>> memory and I/O to be separate. The smaller DSP chips that you can get >>>> for the $3 range are not "big" in any sense and only a very few of them >>>> include Flash memory. So you still need another chip. >>> >>> We pay less than that for the largest of the ADI sigma DSPs. I just >>> received a quote for the smallest CPLD for around $.75. I have use >>> for CPLDs and FPGAs but they're simply too expensive for most of my >>> applications. >> >> It seems the prices have come down in recent years, but still, the parts >> I have seen have no Flash. So you need to add in that cost. But the >> Sigma parts aren't really general purpose. They are good if you can >> make you app fit the DSP design, otherwise they aren't much use. I >> pursued them hard a few years ago until an FAE just threw in the towel >> and said I couldn't do my app on their part. > > Good grief. The issue wasn't to show YOU that YOUR application was > better in a DSP. Like many FGPA weenies, you're trying to sell a part > that has a niche market as the universal hammer. Good grief is right. You don't need to be rude. It isn't just my application, the Sigma parts are designed for a very limited set of DSP apps and even the development software limits how you design with them. They won't do the job of *most* DSP apps. >>>> Even a "small" FPGA can run rings around a DSP when it comes to >>>> performance. Usually "big" in DSPs means fast and when you want really >>>> fast DSP you use an FPGA with all the parallelism you can handle. DSPs >>>> can't touch FPGAs for speed, even with low power. >>> >>> Comparing the two is silly. Each has its place. >> >> That makes no sense. > > Hammer, meet nail. If you don't want to discuss engineering, then please spare me. >> There will always be some designs that a given >> part is a perfect fit for, but that doesn't mean different devices can't >> be compared. The question is what is the best fit for a given job. > > That is *NOT* what you're arguing. You're making the general case > that FPGA>> DSP>> uC, which is just silly. > >> I am hearing some say that FPGAs aren't the best fit and I find they often >> are a better fit than an MCU. > > Hammer, meet nail. You are repeating yourself. >> Much of it has to do with mis-information >> about what FPGAs can and can't do and what is required to make them run. > > Nonsense. > >> Just read Joerge's post. > > I have. > >> Much of the stuff he objects to is specific >> to the individual devices he has worked with. > > Like DSPs. I agree with him. FPGAs aren't in his future. You keep > sugar-coating FPGAs and (erroneously) tear down DSPs. Note that I'm > more of an FPGA kind of guy than a DSP sort but in this case Joerg is > absolutely right. FPGAs only compete in small niche markets and those > where money is no object. No one is tearing down DSPs. Can you just stick to the engineering and skip the drama? Your statement is exactly the sort of "mis-information" I am talking about. At $3 I think you can use an FPGA in a low cost app. So your "money is no object" claim is just BS. >>>>> What I often find is people only doing Altera or only Xilinx. With uC >>>>> it's a bit easier, a PIC guy can be cajoled into programming an AVR, >>>>> usually. >>>> >>>> I'm totally device agnostic. I have worked with all brands other than >>>> MicroSemi (formerly Actel). I even worked with Lucent which was bought >>>> by Lattice and I believe is still sold and supported (but not the GD XP >>>> line which I had designed into a cash cow product and will have to >>>> redesign now). Ever hear of Concurrent? They were bought by Atmel. >>>> Their devices were followed by the AT40K. I worked with the Concurrent >>>> devices. lol So you can see I go way back. >>> >>> The difference anymore is very small. The only reason I prefer one >>> over the other is software and that takes a back seat to most other >>> variables (in rough order of importance, 1. cost, 2. cost, 3. cost). >> >> I have not found a big difference in software. The software is >> different, but those differences are not important. It all compiles my >> HDL fine (mostly because they often use the same third party tool >> vendors) and simulation just works anymore. > > The software is different in how it works, not what it does. That > difference makes *NO* difference to the end result or the cost of the > product. IOW, it's completely irrelevant. At one time it may have > been important but only in so much as that much of it didn't work > (making the hardware useless). That is what I am saying. I find little difference in how the tools work. You write your HDL in your editor or their built in editor, you simulate it using the free tool they provide and you compile to a bit stream that gets downloaded into the FPGA, Flash or RAM. No, the tools aren't going to look exactly the same, but they do the same job and work the same way. Most of the tool is actually third party anyway, except for the Xilinx HDL in house compiler. But them most FPGA professionals (read as working for a company that has a few bucks) pay for the third party tools anyway. >>> The one feature that isn't universal is programming modes. This can >>> make a big difference in indirect costs (field upgrade, SKU >>> personalization, etc.) that may not show up directly on the raw BOM. >> >> I don't know what devices you work with, but the ones I use are easy to >> program. > > Pile on more sugar. You clearly don't work where time is money. Ok, very convincing argument. I have no idea what you are talking about. Downloading an FPGA is no different than an MCU. You either attach a cable for JTAG or your use the resources you designed into your target. >>>> I've used schematic based tools and both VHDL and Verilog. I've worked >>>> with the vendor's tools and third party tools including the NeoCAD tools >>>> which became Xilinx tools when Xilinx bought them. >>>> >>>> If anyone tells you they only know one brand of FPGA you are talking to >>>> an FPGA weenie. I find MCUs to vary a *great* deal more than FPGAs in >>>> terms of usage. MCUs need all sorts of start up code and peripheral >>>> drivers, clock control, etc, etc, etc. FPGAs not so much. They mostly >>>> have the same features and most of that can be inferred from the HDL so >>>> you never need to look too hard under the hood. >>> >>> Sure, the feature set and peripherals of micros varies widely. We use >>> a variety of SoCs from just about everyone. Since most are settling >>> on ARM, switching from one to the other is pretty simple. Our last >>> port from one manufacturer to the other took a couple of weeks. >> >> The CPU is the easy part to port, the compiler handles that for you. It >> is the drivers for the I/O that is harder. > > That's all included in the port. I'm talking from working hardware to > working hardware (the target system not qualified, of course). There > is only about 10% of the code that even has to be looked at. With FPGAs *none* of the code has to be looked at. >> Their libraries have to have >> compatible interfaces and every port is a port. > > Wrong. That's all included. You have identical peripheral interface libraries for different brands of MCUs? Every timer function works the same, every SPI port sets up the same, every power controller is operated the same? >> With FPGAs, all you >> need to do to switch between brands is normally a new pin list and >> timing constraints. > > Bullshit! More sugar! You are the consummate debater... >> The HDL just compiles to suit the new device. > > Oh, you never use libraries? Yet you (erroneously) add that cost into > the DSP/uC bucket. The only libraries I use are the HDL libraries which are standardized, like using stdio. I don't add the libraries into the MCU column, I'm not the one using the MCU. >> It has been a while since I ported between brands but it would make sense >> if they provide tools to port the timing constraints. That is the only >> part that might be any work at all. >> >>>> In short, there is a lot of FUD about FPGAs. Talk to someone who >>>> doesn't buy into the FUD. >>> >>> The FUD is on both sides. The support costs aren't as low as you >>> pretend. >> >> Care to elaborate? > > You've TOTALLY forgotten about simulation, for instance. That's a > huge effort that you simply sweep under the rug. What about it? I paid for a set of tools from Lattice. I had used the Modelsim simulator at work and was used to it. The Lattice tools said they came with the Modelsim simulator. But by the time I got the package it had the Active HDL simulator. I complained about this thinking I would have to learn a new simulator... but it was a no-op to switch. Even my Modelsim scripts ran under the AHDL simulator. So what is your concern? >>>>> Things quickly unravel when you start relying on real hardware that is >>>>> on uC but not on FPGA. Comparators, ADCs, analog muxes, for example. >>>> >>>> If you really need it all on a single chip, then yes, you won't find >>>> that on so many FPGAs although Microsemi has their Fusion line with >>>> analog. My cash cow uses a single FPGA and a stereo CODEC. That was >>>> smaller than any MCU design because the MCU would still require the >>>> CODEC (CD quality) and some of the control logic and interface could not >>>> be done with any conventional MCU. I had to vary the speed of the CODEC >>>> clock via an ADPLL to synchronize it with an incoming data stream. I >>>> don't know how to do that with an MCU and no logic. But I can do it all >>>> with FPGA logic and no MCU. >>> >>> Nonsense. DSPs are also available with CODECs, as are UCs. >> >> You can find a small number of DSPs with CD qualitity CODECs and the >> same for MCUs. I know, I did this search recently. I didn't find much >> and none that suited my other critera. So the redo of my board will >> likely have another FPGA on it. > > Goal post shift added to the hammer. > >> I would appreciate a list of the MCUs/DSPs which have stereo CD quality >> CODECs on chip. The Sigma parts from ADI don't count because their DSPs >> can *only* be used for certain coding like filters, not general purpose >> use. > > Sigmas have them. I haven't looked for others. But Sigmas aren't general purpose DSPs and can't do most DSP jobs. They are designed to be filters, like in hearing aids. >>>>> Last week I reviewed a design with some larger FPGA on there. What I >>>>> found fairly disgusting was how much they had to be babied with the >>>>> power sequencing. uCs don't have that problem. >>>> >>>> If you want to work with the wrong device, then you will find it hard to >>>> work with. There are still single voltage devices on the market. If >>>> this was an old design, most likely it was a Spartan 3 or similar era >>>> device when they (for still unknown reasons) used three, yes, count >>>> them, *three* voltages on the FPGA. The 2.5 volt aux supply was there >>>> solely for the configuration interface which was normally to a 3.3 volt >>>> device! Only from Xilinx... >>>> >>>> If this was a new device, then I guess they picked one based on >>>> something other than ease of use, eh? Don't assume all FPGAs are the same. >>> >>> I thought you just said that there weren't many differences between >>> FPGA manufacturers? >> >> You are mixing apples and oranges. One manufacturer has many different >> families of FPGAs, no? Some are huge power hungry devices that burn a >> hole in your board. Others are much lower power and don't burn a hole >> in your pocketbook either. > > The families all look the same and vary only in density and mix of > memory, speed, MCU, DSP(hmm), and other features. > > Good grief, you're arguing both sides. We've been down the road before. You are not enjoyable to discuss things with. You get obnoxious and don't explain what you are talking about. Do you really want to have this discussion? I don't think I do. -- Rick
Back to comp.arch.embedded | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-08-19 13:14 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2013-08-20 20:16 +0100
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> - 2013-08-21 14:47 -0500
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Jim Stewart <jstewart@jkmicro.com> - 2013-08-21 13:18 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-08-21 16:38 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-08-21 21:30 -0500
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-08-22 10:51 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-06 16:26 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-06 13:33 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-06 17:12 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-06 16:10 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-06 23:59 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 08:10 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 13:03 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 10:59 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 14:54 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 12:39 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 16:44 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 14:48 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-09-07 17:10 -0500
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 15:34 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2013-09-08 00:57 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 16:56 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2013-09-09 17:07 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-09 10:19 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2013-09-09 20:27 +0100
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-09 12:55 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2013-09-11 09:44 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-11 07:27 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2013-09-13 12:42 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-14 11:56 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 19:38 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-07 17:39 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 23:20 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 07:41 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-07 11:17 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 13:23 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:19 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-08 14:03 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 19:42 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-08 17:18 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-09 13:13 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 20:21 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-10 23:42 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2013-09-07 09:24 +0100
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 10:00 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-07 11:32 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 13:35 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:30 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2013-09-09 09:56 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-09-12 11:50 -0500
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2013-09-12 15:06 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-12 14:57 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 00:21 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-13 14:08 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-13 15:15 +0100
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 11:46 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-13 18:43 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-13 19:14 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 15:26 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 15:24 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-09-13 20:22 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 09:32 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 13:44 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 12:46 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-07 13:33 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 13:46 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 17:05 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 15:23 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 19:02 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 16:45 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 23:16 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 08:05 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-08 14:27 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 12:56 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 23:07 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-09-11 10:05 +0100
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-11 07:49 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2013-09-11 16:54 +0100
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-09-11 11:25 -0500
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-11 09:49 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:40 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:38 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 09:34 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-08 14:29 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 13:01 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 16:22 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 23:09 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 16:15 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 14:20 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 18:15 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 15:57 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 19:46 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-08 17:15 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 20:20 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-09 07:17 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-09 12:17 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-09 19:30 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-09 16:38 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-10 14:02 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 23:41 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-11 00:04 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-11 07:53 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-11 21:50 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 09:58 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-12 18:54 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-12 16:17 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 10:03 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-12 19:24 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-09-12 20:38 +0300
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 11:23 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-09-12 22:36 +0300
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 12:41 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-09-12 23:08 +0300
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 11:19 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-12 18:59 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-13 13:00 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-14 12:05 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-12 16:03 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-12 14:42 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-13 00:24 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2013-09-13 14:27 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-14 12:07 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-15 02:26 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-15 09:51 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-13 20:06 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 16:50 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-07 14:33 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 19:07 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-07 16:31 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 23:38 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-08 20:19 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 23:36 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:46 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 11:36 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2013-09-08 09:04 +0100
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-08 13:42 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2013-09-08 19:04 +0100
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-08 07:29 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2013-09-09 08:56 +0100
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-10 23:54 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? krw@attt.bizz - 2013-09-08 16:24 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Ulf Samuelsson <ulf_samuelsson@invalid.telia.com> - 2013-09-07 20:11 +0200
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-09-07 15:06 -0400
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-09-07 12:54 -0700
Re: AREF bypass capacitance on ATMega2560? Ulf Samuelsson <ulf_samuelsson@invalid.telia.com> - 2013-09-02 22:27 +0200
csiph-web