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Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start

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On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 17:59:28 -0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
<clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:

>On 2017-03-27, Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 18:45:09 -0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
>><clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2017-03-27, Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/01/16/tesla-driver-stranded-desert-smartphone-app-failure/
>>>>
>>>
>>>Unbelievable. :-(
>>>
>>>That's a failure on so many levels, starting with Tesla for designing
>>>such a fragile system without any obvious backups and ending with the
>>>driver who never thought of this.
>>
>>
>> But this *was* the backup system.  The primary system was the key fob.
>> This let you drive you car in most cases even if you forgot to
>> actually take you car keys with you.
>>
>
>Oh, I see, thanks. I wonder if the driver knew that a usable signal was
>required for his mobile phone and I wonder if Tesla made that explicit
>in their manuals and user training. (Not everyone would think to ask
>these types of questions unprompted.)


That's a good question, I have no idea how explicit Tesla's training
was/is.  I suspect they emphasize that point more now, though...

I also suspect it was not really a failure mode in the forefront of
Tesla's engineer's minds.  Sure, "it won't work if there's no phone
service" is obvious, but getting from there to "what if a user starts
the car with their phone and then drives someplace without phone
service and shuts it down" goes a couple of steps past the problem
they were trying to solve.  Of course it *is* their responsibility to
think about that sort of thing.  So I'd assume it was mentioned, but
not really emphasized.  IOW "this won't work if you don't have phone
service" was probably mentioned, or at least implied, but "don't use
this to start your car and then drive off into the desert" was not,
and the user didn't make that connection either.

As I mentioned, Nissan has most of the same features (although I'm not
sure it has everything you need to create this particular problem),
and they certainly didn't go out of their way to even emphasize that
unlocking or starting my car from my phone wouldn't work if I didn't
have phone service.  It might well have been in the fine print in the
click through license agreement, but how often do those actually get
read.

I suspect it'll be less than effective in any event - when was the
last time you could get a user to pay attention to a lecture on how
the primary system works, much less the peculiarities of the backup
system...  I still can't convince my mom that she can actually unlock
all the doors by double tapping the button on her key fob.  She
insists on just opening the driver's door, then hunting* for a while
for the door unlock button on the driver's door armrest.  Usually
while I'm standing in the rain on the passenger side.


*I once got a call a couple of days after one of those events that
none of the windows worked anymore (the driver's window might still
have, I don't remember).  She had hit the window lock in the process
of hunting for the door unlock...


>> Tesla's failure was in not realizing that a backup system might become
>> the primary system, because users are creative like that.  That error
>> has bitten many designers - "we don't have to actually monitor X,
>> because the emergency limit sensor will shut it down when it goes too
>> far", "we don't have to handle the gun safely, the safety is on", "I
>> don't have to check the coolant level every day, because the backup
>> cooling system will kick in if the primary system runs low", "I can
>> take safety #1 and #2 off, because safety #3 is still there".
>
>Perhaps it might be better if we all just went back to using physical
>keys instead. :-)


The traditional approach, where the key was physically locked into the
ignition certainly had the advantage that you couldn't drive the car
anywhere without taking the ignition key with you!

But that was only the ignition key.  GM, for example, was (in)famous
for decades for having different* door and ignition keys.  So if you
had some way to *lock* the door without the door key (and that was
possible with at least some cars - sometimes via the
hold-up-the-latch-while-closing-the-door trick), you could have lost
the door key after unlocking the door, and then driven off with the
ignition key, and then gotten yourself locked out of the car, despite
having the ignition key.  Of course most users just kept both keys on
the same keychain, which usually prevented that problem.

Most people, myself included, would be loathe to give up keyless entry
just because it introduces a few new (rare) failure modes.  It is darn
convenient.


*They built steering columns and doors in different plants, and it
took them decades to figure out how to coordinate those assemblies so
the same key was configured for both.

Most people, myself included, would be loathe to give up keyless entry
just because it introduces a few new (rare) failure modes.  It is darn
convinient.


*They built steering columns and doors in different plants, and it
took them decades to figure out how to coordinate those assemblies so
the same key was configured for both.

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Cloud? IoT? How to start pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 12:04 +0100
  Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Randy Day <randy.day@sasktel.netx> - 2017-03-23 07:41 -0600
  Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 12:04 +0000
    Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 15:35 -0400
      Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-25 20:10 +0000
      Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 15:23 -0500
      Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-03-25 20:28 +0000
    Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-25 22:20 +0200
      Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 19:34 -0700
      Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-26 07:49 +0100
        Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-26 01:20 -0700
          Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-26 09:17 +0100
            Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-26 02:47 -0700
              Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2017-03-26 12:46 +0100
                Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-26 11:31 -0700
                Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-26 21:29 +0100
                Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-26 16:08 -0700
        Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 09:21 +0200
  Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-03-24 14:41 +0000
    Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 11:29 -0700
      Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-24 23:03 -0400
        Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start "tim..." <tims_new_home@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-25 09:16 +0000
        Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 10:39 -0700
          Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-03-26 05:31 -0400
            Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-26 03:36 -0700
            Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-27 00:22 +0000
              Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-03-27 16:53 +0100
                Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-27 18:45 +0000
                Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-27 15:21 -0500
                Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2017-03-28 17:59 +0000
                Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-28 15:01 -0500
                Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-31 00:09 -0400
                Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2017-04-05 11:58 +0300
      Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 12:55 -0500
        Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 11:01 -0700
          Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-03-25 15:25 -0500
            Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 19:36 -0700
  Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-03-24 18:29 +0000
  Re: Cloud? IoT? How to start "Robert Lacoste" <see-alciom-dot-com@none.com> - 2017-03-29 13:33 +0200

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