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Re: Editor recommendation

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Hi Randy,

On 8/30/2013 5:30 PM, Randy Yates wrote:
> Don Y <this@isnotme.com> writes:
>
>> Greetings Dimiter!
>>
>> On 8/29/2013 9:23 AM, dp wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:10:10 AM UTC+3, chris wrote:
>>>> ... The most useful thing when I started using it was the
>>>> rectangular cut and paste, which I still use all the time, though the rest
>>>> of the world has caught up meantime.
>>>
>>> So the rest of the world slowly catches up I gather :-)?
>>> I have had rectangular cut and paste ever since I began
>>> using my own editor (around 1990), had no idea who else
>>> would have it and since when.
>>
>> Brief had rectangular cut & paste in the early 80's (my v2.1
>> manual is copyright 1984 and I'm pretty sure the feature
>> was present on earlier versions -- I'll have to chase down
>> a floppy .IMZ from my archives...)
>
> I used brief back the late 80s. It was an excellent editor.
>
> I've been using emacs/xemacs since 1998. I wish I could say it's
> head-and-shoulders above the rest, but in the past year or two I've
> found some quirks that make me hesitate, e.g., having a very hard time
> with files that are one long line.

I started using it in the late 70's/early 80's.  At the time,
just one of many different ways of massaging characters in files.
I've only been running it on my own hardware since the late 80's.
Brief was far more readily available (cuz I could run that on
*any* PC).  E.g., on a 16MHz 386 it was like greased lightning!

For degenerate input files (e.g., "one long line"), I tend to
work in a hex editor.  Search and replace FOR EQUIVALENT SIZE
KEYS is a piece of cake.  Adding/removing characters in the
process gets more problematic.

[IIRC, BRIEF had a 256 character line length limitation]

I am more often concerned with long files -- e.g., 1MB+ -- and
the depth of "undo".

> However, elisp makes this the most configurable/customizable editor.
> Ever. I've written entire code generation templates in elisp that allow
> me to, e.g., create an entire, compilable testbench template (for C) in
> 30 seconds.

I see "configurable" as a double-edged sword.  Yeah, you have the
*ability* to customize it to your task.  But, you now have the
*responsibility* of customizing it for your task!  (or, hope
someone else shares your idea of *how* it should be customized,
etc.)

E.g., emacs is wonderful in how flexible it *can* be.  But, if
someone hasn't already spent the time preparing a suitable
"mode" for you, then that task falls on your shoulders.  And,
unless you can drag your environment/toolchain around *everywhere*
you might want to use it, you often end up fighting someone
else's idea of how *their* instance of the toolchain should be
configured (*assuming* they actually use it!).  Or, finding
that the tool isn't available where you are, currently.

By way of example, there is no *effective* Limbo mode.  And,
I'm the only one who is likely to write a mode for *my* IDL.

How much time do you throw into these sorts of "tool building"
tasks?  How much time do you expect them to *save* from the
"real work" you have to do?  How happy are you living with
someone else's idea of how a "mode" should work?  If I embed
some SQL (or HTML, etc.) *inside* a "C" source file, will you
be smart enough to recognize this and provide the same level
of (ahem) "help" that you try to provide for the C source?
*Or*, for that SQL if it had been freestanding in a ".SQL"
file??

Give me a mechanism to move characters around on a screen.  I
don't need you to tell me that "if" (in this context) is a
keyword -- if I don't know that, your help is too little, too
late!  :>  A compiler can tell me if I forgot to close a string
six lines back (i.e., it is the compiler's responsibility to
be language cop -- not the text editor!)  Implement fast/flexible
searches.  Support non-ASCII character encodings.  etc.

If I want to adopt a particular style (e.g., how I present some
embedded SQL statements within Limbo source so that they are easily
recognizable as such) for expressing my algorithms, let me do that
without trying to coerce it to comply with *your* idea of what
I might be doing (or, providing NO help at all).

Then, get out of my way.

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Thread

Editor recommendation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-08-28 16:18 -0400
  Re: Editor recommendation David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-08-28 22:46 +0200
    Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-28 22:10 +0000
      Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 09:23 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-08-29 17:15 +0000
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 10:38 -0700
            Re: Editor recommendation Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2013-08-29 17:49 +0000
              Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 12:19 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-29 12:16 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 11:32 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-29 12:15 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 14:04 -0700
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 14:25 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-29 17:05 -0500
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 16:32 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-29 15:44 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 18:02 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2013-08-30 13:22 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-30 15:00 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2013-08-31 02:17 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 11:36 +0200
          Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:30 -0400
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 00:50 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 11:54 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 10:17 -0400
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 10:20 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-30 13:29 +0000
          Re: Editor recommendation dp <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2013-08-30 15:04 -0700
    Re: Editor recommendation George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2013-08-30 13:05 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-30 22:55 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-08-28 21:22 -0500
    Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 19:54 -0700
      Re: Editor recommendation Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-08-28 22:28 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 22:38 -0700
    Re: Editor recommendation George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2013-08-30 12:42 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation Paul Urbanus <urb@urbonix.com> - 2013-09-02 21:20 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Paul Urbanus <urb@urbonix.com> - 2013-09-04 01:20 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-04 07:22 -0400
  Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-28 19:52 -0700
  Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-28 22:41 -0500
    Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-08-29 12:19 +0000
      Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 11:54 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-09-03 15:32 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-08-29 09:19 +0300
  Re: Editor recommendation Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-08-29 10:01 -0400
    Re: Editor recommendation Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2013-08-29 18:45 +0300
    Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 12:04 -0700
      Re: Editor recommendation Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-29 16:31 -0500
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-29 15:00 -0700
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:50 -0400
      Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-30 20:37 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-30 21:15 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-08-31 12:05 +0200
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 11:26 -0700
              Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-09-01 20:21 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-01 17:02 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2013-09-02 19:55 +0200
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 16:22 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-02 19:39 -0400
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 17:51 -0700
                Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-09-02 18:49 -0700
          Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 15:13 -0400
            Re: Editor recommendation Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-31 13:45 -0700
  Re: Editor recommendation Habib Bouaziz-Viallet <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2013-08-29 16:31 +0200
    Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 12:03 -0500
      Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-08-31 13:27 -0400
        Re: Editor recommendation bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-31 13:17 -0500
      Re: Editor recommendation Habib Bouaziz-Viallet <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2013-09-01 19:16 +0200
        Re: Editor recommendation Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> - 2013-09-01 19:52 -0400
          Re: Editor recommendation chris <meru@devnull.com> - 2013-09-03 14:41 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation jhallen@TheWorld.com (Joseph H Allen) - 2013-08-29 20:09 +0000
  Re: Editor recommendation stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-09-04 12:10 +0000

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