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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #20347

Re: Forth convergence with rest of world

From Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Forth convergence with rest of world
Date 2013-03-06 17:35 +0100
Organization 1&1 Internet AG
Message-ID <kh7r8u$1p3$1@online.de> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <kh3158$mtp$1@dont-email.me> <ef44640b-3fd6-487a-99be-81fe4fda3b7e@ia3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <kh58e5$ene$1@dont-email.me> <20130305220509.21890.52051@Nokia-N810-43-7> <fb0d5535-d26d-4d34-baa2-1d009e3c4689@r8g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>

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Alex McDonald wrote:
>> I'm still puzzled why the Forth world doesn't just converge with common
>> usage on areas which are orthogonal to the true distinctiveness of Forth.
>> 0x1234 for hex, 0123 for octal, 5.5 for float/double, 5L for long int.
>> And then, // for comment to end of line.  "const" for constant, and
>> so forth.  Probably then->endif, and stop SHOUTING AT THE COMPUTER,
>> Lower case has won for control structures.
> 
> variable  -> var
> 2variable -> longvar

dvar, if you are consistent with d@ d!.

> value     -> int
> 2value    -> longint

dint.

> 5.5 is float on a par with 5.5e0, and replace double with 5.5d

We don't actually have separate float/double data types.

> Permit # $ % & (decimal, hex, binary, octal) as prefixes on any number
> format, including float

Yes, though octal really isn't of much use.

> Drop WORD BASE [COMPILE] and STATE

How to do pictured number output without base?  BASE-EXECUTE might count as 
replacement for BASE - BASE itself is then hidden in #.  For input, we don't 
BASE much nowadays.  The rest: mostly a done deal.  With COMP: you don't 
need STATE anymore.

> Replace all 2xxx (2swap 2@ 2! etc) with Dxxx (dswap d@ d!)

d@ and d! are a bit different, 2! has a defined big endian order of the two 
words.  Adding d@ and d! isn't a problem, and aliasing the 2xxx words with 
dxxx neither.  Note that the 2xxx words are much more often used with addr 
len strings today than with double integers, especially on 64 bit machines.

> Drop S" and S\" in favour of " quoted strings

Gforth has that now through recognizers (S\" is replaced).

> Recognise UTF-8 encodings as a first class citizen and redefine COUNT
> and C@ accordingly

We have that, but they cre called XC@ and XC@+.  I don't see a problem in 
that, C@ and C! are used for bytes in a lot of code, not for characters as 
such.

> None of these is likely to fly, however much I might wish them.

It's not such a big step.  The question is really: Why should one 70s 
language mimic the other 70s language?

BTW: We do have some convergencies from the rest of the world with Forth, 
too.  Lua and Go e.g. can return multiple values.  Language syntax today is 
less pedantic (e.g. Go allows to drop the semicolon at the end of line).  
Fast compiles seem to matter - Eclipse compiles Java stuff in the 
background, while you still edit it, and Go also compiles pretty quick.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-26 17:03 -0500
  Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-02-27 04:06 -0500
    Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> - 2013-02-27 05:30 -0600
      Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-27 06:34 -0600
        Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-02-27 14:42 +0000
          Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-27 11:54 -0600
            Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-27 15:27 -0500
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-02-27 21:58 +0100
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-27 16:33 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 17:23 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 15:12 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:30 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 14:49 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 16:58 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 16:35 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:29 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 12:17 -0600
            Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-28 00:17 +0100
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-28 01:04 -0800
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-28 17:10 +0100
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-28 11:20 -0600
            Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 16:54 +0000
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 15:38 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:43 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 15:05 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 23:14 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 03:41 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 11:00 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 12:47 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 16:27 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 19:27 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 20:46 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 00:19 -0800
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 12:17 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 17:22 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 17:52 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 17:03 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 12:38 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-05 17:57 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 13:29 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andy Valencia <user@vsta.org> - 2013-03-05 22:19 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 17:58 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 19:26 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 11:19 -0800
                Forth convergence with rest of world Andy Valencia <user@vsta.org> - 2013-03-05 22:17 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 15:15 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-06 17:35 +0100
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-06 16:44 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-06 17:39 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-05 18:16 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 13:49 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-06 19:11 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 14:24 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-06 19:40 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 09:26 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 09:26 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-06 15:34 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andy Valencia <user@vsta.org> - 2013-03-06 22:04 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 12:09 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 04:24 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-07 04:15 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 08:42 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-07 13:50 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-07 12:12 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-07 18:36 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-07 14:07 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-07 19:43 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:27 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-07 08:47 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world awegel@arcor.de (Alex Wegel) - 2013-03-07 21:42 +0100
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-07 14:43 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-07 13:53 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-07 12:38 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 08:43 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 18:04 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 12:18 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 18:36 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-08 14:30 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-03-09 01:27 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-09 02:43 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 01:19 -0800
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 12:01 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:02 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 12:45 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 11:58 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 19:34 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 15:15 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-03-04 23:31 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 17:07 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 12:11 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-05 00:32 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 17:00 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 16:52 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:32 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 12:25 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-11 09:57 -0700
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-11 12:05 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-11 17:20 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-11 14:05 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-11 14:35 -0700
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-12 00:21 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-12 12:13 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-11 19:16 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-11 19:29 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-11 21:36 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-11 20:52 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-11 14:39 -0700
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-11 21:52 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-12 01:11 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-12 00:41 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-12 17:33 +0100
    Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-27 11:51 -0500
      Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-27 09:25 -1000
        Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-27 17:23 -0500
          Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-27 13:10 -1000

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