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Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ...

From Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Subject Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ...
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
References (6 earlier) <2013Mar3.154329@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <INCdnesuN76QJq7MnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Mar7.180036@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <xoidnVW6ete1h6TMnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Mar8.183232@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID <bJSdnZ7dcMyFsKfMnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d@supernews.com> (permalink)
Date 2013-03-08 12:25 -0600

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Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>I didn't pay very much attention to the paper because it seemed to
>>me to be describing a clever way to do something that should not be
>>done.
> 
> Maybe you should read it and pay attention.  It does not just
> describe the implementation of combined words, but discusses the
> problems why people want combined words, some additional ideas etc.

I already know why people want them.

> Admittedly, if you don't even want to think about why people have not
> flocked to your preferred solution (stateless Forth), you probably
> won't get anything out of the paper.

I've thought about it lots.  Stateless forth is not required for my
preferred solution, which is not to write any "combined words".  That
way, the current STATE can stay and it does no harm.

>>But there is not a mess of ad-hoc recognizers.  There's two kinds of
>>number and that's it
> 
> There are single and double numbers, and that was already very messy
> in Gforth.  And then there are FP numbers.  And number prefixes.

You don't need a separate recognizer for number prefixes or double
words: it's just an integer recognizer.

>> the rest can be done in the usual way with
>>immediate words, modulo the usual argument about state-smart S" .
> 
> Actually numbers could also be done with (immediate) parsing words, e.g.
> 
> N# 1234 \ single
> D# 1234 \ double
> F# 1234 \ FP
> H# 1234 \ hex single
> 
> : foo
> [N#] 1234 \ single
> [D#] 1234 \ double
> [F#] 1234 \ FP
> [H#] 1234 \ hex single
> ;
> 
> Instead, they are done with ad-hoc recognizers.  I think that's good,

Indeed.

> and using recognizers instead of parsing words is also a good idea for
> strings and maybe xts.
> 
>>I pointed out that with recognizers you have another way to define
>>arbitrary syntaxes that are in no way related to the rest of the Forth
>>language.  That is to say, the potential mess is unbounded,
> 
> The nanny argument.

True enough.  Maybe I'm a nanny.  Maybe someone has to be!  :-)

>>and they don't add much.
> 
> They provide an alternative to the seductions of combined (or worse,
> STATE-smart) parsing words,

But no-one needs need them, so...

> that does not need us to change the literals when we copy from
> interpreted to compiled code or vice versa (the reason why people
> choose combined or STATE-smart words for the purpose).

Andrew.

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Thread

MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-26 17:03 -0500
  Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-02-27 04:06 -0500
    Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> - 2013-02-27 05:30 -0600
      Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-27 06:34 -0600
        Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-02-27 14:42 +0000
          Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-27 11:54 -0600
            Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-27 15:27 -0500
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-02-27 21:58 +0100
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-27 16:33 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 17:23 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 15:12 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:30 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 14:49 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 16:58 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 16:35 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:29 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 12:17 -0600
            Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-28 00:17 +0100
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-28 01:04 -0800
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-28 17:10 +0100
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-28 11:20 -0600
            Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 16:54 +0000
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 15:38 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:43 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 15:05 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 23:14 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 03:41 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 11:00 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 12:47 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 16:27 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 19:27 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 20:46 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 00:19 -0800
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 12:17 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 17:22 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 17:52 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 17:03 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 12:38 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-05 17:57 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 13:29 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andy Valencia <user@vsta.org> - 2013-03-05 22:19 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 17:58 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 19:26 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 11:19 -0800
                Forth convergence with rest of world Andy Valencia <user@vsta.org> - 2013-03-05 22:17 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 15:15 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-06 17:35 +0100
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-06 16:44 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-06 17:39 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-05 18:16 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 13:49 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-06 19:11 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 14:24 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-06 19:40 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 09:26 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 09:26 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-06 15:34 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andy Valencia <user@vsta.org> - 2013-03-06 22:04 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 12:09 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 04:24 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-07 04:15 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 08:42 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-07 13:50 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-07 12:12 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-07 18:36 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-07 14:07 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-07 19:43 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:27 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-07 08:47 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world awegel@arcor.de (Alex Wegel) - 2013-03-07 21:42 +0100
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-07 14:43 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-07 13:53 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-07 12:38 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 08:43 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 18:04 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 12:18 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 18:36 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-08 14:30 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-03-09 01:27 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-09 02:43 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 01:19 -0800
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 12:01 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:02 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 12:45 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 11:58 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 19:34 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 15:15 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-03-04 23:31 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 17:07 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 12:11 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-05 00:32 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 17:00 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 16:52 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:32 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 12:25 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-11 09:57 -0700
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-11 12:05 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-11 17:20 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-11 14:05 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-11 14:35 -0700
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-12 00:21 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-12 12:13 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-11 19:16 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-11 19:29 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-11 21:36 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-11 20:52 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-11 14:39 -0700
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-11 21:52 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-12 01:11 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-12 00:41 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-12 17:33 +0100
    Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-27 11:51 -0500
      Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-27 09:25 -1000
        Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-27 17:23 -0500
          Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-27 13:10 -1000

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