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Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ...

From stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ...
Message-ID <513f165e.1323262@news.demon.co.uk> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <2013Mar7.180036@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <xoidnVW6ete1h6TMnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com> <82aeda64-aaac-4dcb-813a-26698c584634@googlegroups.com> <aIudncQby9Jxk6PMnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Mar11.182047@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
Date 2013-03-12 12:13 +0000

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On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:20:47 GMT, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at
(Anton Ertl) wrote:

>1) If S" is to be avoided, programmers have to know about the
>alternative.  So it does concern the programmers of that system as
>well as the implementors.

We have no standard way to specify a word's interpretation and
compilation actions separately. This needs to be fixed. Then
the STATE-smart stuff can all disappear. 

However, a measure of common practice needs to emerge and so
far there is very little.

>2) If there is a good way to clean up the mess of ad-hoc recognizers
>that lives in a full-featured standard system, that's probably of
>interest to implementors of other systems, too.
>
>3) Sometimes programmers want to add a way to write a new kind of
>literals (whatever their application needs) in their program.
>Currently they tend to write STATE-smart parsing words for that.  With
>programmer-definable recognizers, they could avoid that.
>
>4) If programmer-definable recognizers are a useful feature, it would
>be good if we established common practice; and for that it's necessary
>for implementors and programmers to know about this idea.

The extensible interpret/compile loop is an idea that is revisited
every decade or so. However, until Forth20xx sorts out the compilation
terminology, people cannot understand each other.

It makes my brain hurt to be forced to distinguish between
  STATE-smart
  state-smart
and then to be told how good
  recognizers
  recognisers
are and to have to read
  http://amforth.sourceforge.net/pr/Recognizer-en.pdf
  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef12/papers/paysan-recognizers.pdf
before we even know how to deal with compilation properly.

This discussion could really do with a good presentation of terms as
some of the discussion does not match Matthias Trute's paper. From
a quick look, the term also goes back to 2005 for Forth.

Stephen


-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

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MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-26 17:03 -0500
  Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-02-27 04:06 -0500
    Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> - 2013-02-27 05:30 -0600
      Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-27 06:34 -0600
        Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-02-27 14:42 +0000
          Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-27 11:54 -0600
            Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-27 15:27 -0500
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-02-27 21:58 +0100
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-27 16:33 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 17:23 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 15:12 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:30 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 14:49 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 16:58 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 16:35 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:29 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 12:17 -0600
            Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-28 00:17 +0100
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-28 01:04 -0800
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-28 17:10 +0100
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-28 11:20 -0600
            Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 16:54 +0000
              Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 15:38 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:43 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 15:05 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 23:14 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 03:41 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 11:00 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 12:47 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 16:27 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 19:27 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 20:46 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 00:19 -0800
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 12:17 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 17:22 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 17:52 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 17:03 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 12:38 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-05 17:57 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 13:29 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andy Valencia <user@vsta.org> - 2013-03-05 22:19 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 17:58 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 19:26 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 11:19 -0800
                Forth convergence with rest of world Andy Valencia <user@vsta.org> - 2013-03-05 22:17 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 15:15 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-06 17:35 +0100
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-06 16:44 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-06 17:39 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-05 18:16 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 13:49 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-06 19:11 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 14:24 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-06 19:40 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 09:26 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 09:26 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-06 15:34 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andy Valencia <user@vsta.org> - 2013-03-06 22:04 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 12:09 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 04:24 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-07 04:15 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 08:42 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-07 13:50 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-07 12:12 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-07 18:36 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-07 14:07 -0500
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-07 19:43 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:27 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-07 08:47 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world awegel@arcor.de (Alex Wegel) - 2013-03-07 21:42 +0100
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-07 14:43 -0800
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-07 13:53 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-07 12:38 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 08:43 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 18:04 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 12:18 -0600
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 18:36 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-08 14:30 -1000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-03-09 01:27 +0000
                Re: Forth convergence with rest of world Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-09 02:43 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 01:19 -0800
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-05 12:01 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:02 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 12:45 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 11:58 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-04 19:34 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 15:15 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-03-04 23:31 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-05 17:07 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 12:11 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-05 00:32 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 17:00 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-07 16:52 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:32 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 12:25 -0600
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-11 09:57 -0700
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-11 12:05 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-11 17:20 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-11 14:05 -0500
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-11 14:35 -0700
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-12 00:21 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-12 12:13 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-11 19:16 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-11 19:29 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-11 21:36 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-11 20:52 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-11 14:39 -0700
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-11 21:52 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-12 01:11 +0100
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-12 00:41 +0000
                Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-12 17:33 +0100
    Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-27 11:51 -0500
      Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-27 09:25 -1000
        Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-27 17:23 -0500
          Re: MiniForth 0.1.18 has just been released ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-27 13:10 -1000

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