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Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime.

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"bbgruff" <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:algu3eFirn9U1@mid.individual.net...
> Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> "bbgruff" <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:alg7j7Fdko6U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> owl wrote:
>>>
>>>> You see, the problem is that you are ignoring the fact that murders are
>>>> predominantly an inner-city gang-related problem in the US, and much
>>>> more tied to centers of high population density.  I came across a stat
>>>> the other day that observed iirc that US has about 180 cities with a
>>>> population greater than 200,000, while UK has only about 50 at that
>>>> level.
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>> Perhaps you are missing the point that the population of the U.S. is
>>> about 312 Million compared with less than 63 Million in the UK.
>>
>> That makes the population ratio in the US 4.95x larger.
>>
>>
>>> Thus, with large cities in the ratio 180:50, the U.K. has more large
>>> cities
>>> (almost twice as many) per Million population.
>>
>> Incorrect. Using 200k as some sort of magic-number, according to 
>> Wikipedia
>> the number of US urban areas with a population of 200k or more is 179. 
>> The
>> number of UK urban areas with 200k or more residents is 34.
>>
>> The ratio is 5.26 to one. In other words, the US has 4.95x the population
>> with 5.26 the number of large urban areas. The US has *more* large urban
>> areas per capita than the UK.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom
>
> So far so good, and thx for the links.
>
> So we agree that the number of people in the U.S. living in cities with a
> population greater than 200,000 is about 6% higher than in the U.K.
> That's a close call, in fact?
>
That is very close in my opinion. But I'm not an expert on this subject 
either so I lookup some numbers, post them and state my opinion. Someone who 
does this for a living could probably point out several mistakes I'm making.


> ...but why is the murder rate 400% (per capita) of that in the U.K.?
> - and 300% per capita greater than Canada?
>
It's simple. There's a lot of people here in the US that don't deserve to 
live. So we kill them.

But don't fret because you're not completely left out - the UK has 500% (per 
capita) more violent crime than we do:
<quote>
UK is violent crime capital of Europe

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is 
higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, 
Australia and South Africa.

A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the 
Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 
652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007. It means 
there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, 
making it the most violent place in Europe.

By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 
100,000 population.
</quote>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html


>
> Well, you must remember that a large proportion of the land in these tiny
> islands is also very sparsely populated - the Scottish Highlands, Wales,
> moorland, etc.
> What matter is the *proportion* of the land, not the size of your deserts.
>
> I followed up a little on your links.
>
> Interestingly, I found the following:-
>
> Conurbations with a pop. density > 2,000/sq km:-
>
>  U.S.    4
>  U.K.  136 (and still counting - the list ran out!)
>
> For example, those 136 in the U.K exceed the population density of New 
> York!

Is it the population density of "New York" or "New York City" - huge 
difference. The state of New York is relatively large and nearly all of 
"upstate NY" is farm land, the Adirondack Park, etc and is sparsely 
populated. The population density in upstate NY is proably "crowded" 
compared to Montana and Wyoming but compared to NY City it's very rural.

But here's some good population density info:


NY City
Population
 . Estimate (2011)  8,244,910
 . Density  27,012.5/sq mi (10,429.6/km2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City

London
Population
 . London  8,173,194
 . Density  13,466/sq mi  (5,206/km2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London



If that's not enough then this will add some confusion into the mix:
   http://www.demographia.com/db-lonlanypar.htm

This site compares London, Los Angeles, NY and Paris. Take a look at the 4th 
table: Population per Square Mile.



> Come on Ezekiel, you lot don't know what crowding is - we'd classify your
> city dwellers as Rural Inhabitants!
>
According to Wikipedia - the large city that's about 20 minutes from my 
house has "just barely" a lower population density than London. A long time 
ago I used to live in New Jersey and commute to work in Brooklyn, NY every 
day so I'm familiar with crowding.

> In all seriousness, from what I've been reading these past couple of 
> weeks,
> we've all been right about "violence in cities" (it happens mostly there),
> but wrong about the cause.

I've missed most of those threads. (Fortunately)

> If you want a correlation, it seems that you need to look at the 
> proportion
> of lead in the air, not from guns but from car exhausts, and that 23 years
> previously!
>

I never heard of this until just now when I was searching for some 
links/news on crime. I never would have thought that but who knows. From the 
little bit that they mentioned it sure sounds like a possibility. I always 
thought that violent crime was largely tied to poverty and economic climate. 
If someone is doing well they generally don't have a need to stab some guy 
to get his wallet or do to a home invasion and steal someone's TV set. But 
lead in the air... who knew.

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Thread

Britain -- the land of violent crime. owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2013-01-13 13:44 +0000
  LOL! You are being lead around by your nose! You are too ridiculous! :) Big Steel <"The One"@One.net> - 2013-01-13 08:49 -0500
    Re: LOL! You are being lead around by your nose! You are too ridiculous! :) owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2013-01-13 13:54 +0000
  America still the murder capital of the world 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2013-01-13 14:03 +0000
    Re: America still the murder capital of the world owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2013-01-13 14:10 +0000
  Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. bbgruff <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-13 15:11 +0000
    Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2013-01-13 15:52 +0000
      Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. Big Steel <"The One"@One.net> - 2013-01-13 10:58 -0500
        Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2013-01-13 16:07 +0000
          Diaper Rash Owl, I am sure your drugs have you confused again. Big Steel <"The One"@One.net> - 2013-01-13 11:10 -0500
          Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-13 11:12 -0500
            Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. George <hpt@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-13 09:37 -0700
              Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-13 11:43 -0500
                Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. "Cola Zealot" <Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com> - 2013-01-13 19:28 +0100
                Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-13 13:29 -0500
      Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. bbgruff <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-13 17:01 +0000
        Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2013-01-13 12:36 -0500
          Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. bbgruff <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-13 23:25 +0000
            Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2013-01-14 00:51 +0000
            Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2013-01-14 13:40 -0500
        Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2013-01-14 00:20 +0000
          Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. bbgruff <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-14 00:31 +0000
      Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. spike1@freenet.co.uk - 2013-01-13 16:42 +0000
        Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2013-01-13 13:03 -0500
          Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-15 08:29 -0600
  Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. Big Steel <"The One"@One.net> - 2013-01-13 10:18 -0500
    Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. "Mr Pounder" <MrPounder@RationalThought.com> - 2013-01-13 19:18 +0000
      Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. Big Steel <"The One77"@One77.net> - 2013-01-13 14:26 -0500
        Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. "Mr Pounder" <MrPounder@RationalThought.com> - 2013-01-13 20:13 +0000
          Hi Mr. Pounder!:) No no ho, it's not going to work Mr. Pounder the Chicago City Dump is where a sociopath as the Chicago City dump creature  (you) belongs. :) You can't change your spots on your hairy nasty back. :) Big Steel <"The One77"@One77.net> - 2013-01-13 15:18 -0500
      Mr.  Pounder  your ass we know what part of your body you are pounding, huh? :) Big Steel <"The One77"@One77.net> - 2013-01-13 14:29 -0500
      Yeah you had better pound the Chicago City Dump -- Chicago's City Dump creature.   :) Big Steel <"The One77"@One77.net> - 2013-01-13 14:35 -0500
      Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-15 08:04 -0600
        Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. Big Steel <"The OneOOOOwee"@OneOOOOweee.net> - 2013-01-15 09:21 -0500
        Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2013-01-15 10:14 -0500
        Re: Britain -- the land of violent crime. owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2013-01-16 00:55 +0000

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