Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #19045

Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct"

From	jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct"
Date	2012-10-18 11:17 +0200
Organization	lccwin
Message-ID	<k5ohed$5p4$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <k5n916$je0$1@Kil-nws-1.UCIS.Dal.Ca> <507F380B.2060402@verizon.net> <k5ocm1$m8d$1@dont-email.me> <k5odnu$rdf$1@speranza.aioe.org> <k5oeap$sh0$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Le 18/10/12 10:23, Juha Nieminen a écrit :
> In comp.lang.c++ jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> wrote:
>> C++ is a mistake. It has produced a language that nobody understands,
>> not even Stroustrup himself.
>
> To make such an inflammatory post on a C++ group you are either incredibly
> stupid or the worst kind of troll. (And that's an inclusive 'or'.)
>
To say in a C group (comp.lang.c)

 > I have never met someone who used C instead of C++
 > unless he was forced to do so.

is NOT inflammatory, of course.

I did NOT treat anyone of "stupid" or "troll" Mr Nieminen.

Just some facts to put this discussion in a less polemic tone:

1) Mr Stroustrup gave up on "concepts" after several YEARS of work. He 
could not (as he said) understand all the implications that the change 
could have, nor could the people in the standards committee so they just
balked out.

For me, in my stupid little mind, it means that nobody could really 
understand the consequences of a modification of the language and that 
the languagve has gotten too complex for humans to understand. You need 
a machine to understand c++

2) Further proof that C++ is a language humans can't fully understand is 
the fact that the specifications for operator overloading (for instance) 
go for pages and pages of the C++ standard and require in the last 
resort a topological sort of all possible classes involved. This means 
that it can only be done in a moderately complex application by a 
machine (i.e. a compiler) that will do the sort and produce its result 
that can be (maybe) followed by humans in  a super human effort but 
can't be done in a daily basis by the C++ programmers that can only 
GUESS that their code is right.

3) And yet another proof is that when somebody asks something in the
C++ group the answer is in MOST cases

"I compiled it with compiler XXX and the answer was YYY"

and NOT

"The correct answer should be YYY because the standard specifies ..." etc.

People give as a ROUTINE answer the answer the machine proposes them,
not the answer they deduced since understanding a statement can be
an impossible task.

The language has grown SO complex that nobody knows ALL the subtleties 
of it. Most programmers know a small subset that they use (30-40%), and 
ignore the rest. Experts may know 60-70%, but nobody really understands 
it ALL.

Is it necessary for humans to understand completely a machine language?

I do not know. Yes, my message was polemic but it was an ANSWER to 
previous polemic.

Yours sincerely

jacob

Thread

C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gus gassmann <gus@nospam.com> - 2012-10-17 06:49 -0300
  Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-10-17 13:08 +0200
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-17 08:19 -0400
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-10-17 15:19 +0000
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gus gassmann <gus@nospam.com> - 2012-10-17 18:47 -0300
      Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2012-10-17 22:46 +0000
        Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-18 07:13 +0000
      Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-17 18:58 -0400
        Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-18 09:55 +0200
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-10-18 10:13 +0200
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-18 08:23 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-10-18 11:17 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-18 23:37 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:35 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-19 11:40 -0700
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-18 21:45 +1300
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:03 +0100
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-18 07:18 -0400
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-18 17:43 +0200
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2012-10-18 13:52 -0700
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-19 21:34 +1300
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-19 11:03 +0200
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-10-20 14:03 +0100
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 09:27 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-19 13:43 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 12:46 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 10:14 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2012-10-19 14:53 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-19 13:52 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-19 14:13 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 21:24 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-20 11:47 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 21:22 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2012-10-19 11:21 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 21:29 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-19 18:53 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-20 12:13 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-20 05:55 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-20 13:24 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-10-20 12:54 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-20 06:45 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-21 09:20 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-20 22:28 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:05 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 02:23 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:32 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-10-21 11:56 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 12:54 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ptyxs <kerloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 13:43 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-10-26 03:37 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-26 07:33 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:14 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:08 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-20 13:44 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-21 09:09 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-20 22:31 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 02:11 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-21 20:28 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:40 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 13:31 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-22 08:41 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 16:24 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-21 15:05 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-22 07:52 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-22 14:02 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-10-26 03:41 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-26 07:53 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-26 09:51 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-26 13:48 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-26 07:35 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2012-10-26 18:42 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-27 04:21 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-27 05:04 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2012-10-27 08:06 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-27 06:50 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2012-10-27 11:13 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-27 12:02 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2012-10-27 15:46 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-27 20:24 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-27 20:11 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:43 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-27 13:52 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-27 14:40 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" google@ianshome.com - 2012-10-23 12:03 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:35 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-27 14:24 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:36 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:08 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 02:51 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-21 21:09 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 12:16 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 11:55 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 13:47 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-22 08:46 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 03:02 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-22 08:04 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Tobias Müller <troplin@bluewin.ch> - 2012-10-21 18:54 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-22 08:49 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Tobias Müller <troplin@bluewin.ch> - 2012-10-21 20:07 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-21 13:53 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-22 09:54 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 02:41 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Tobias Müller <troplin@bluewin.ch> - 2012-10-22 06:12 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-10-22 20:52 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-22 16:30 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-23 11:22 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-10-23 16:58 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 02:22 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:30 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-20 09:06 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-20 07:43 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:11 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 11:56 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-21 07:43 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-21 10:36 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-22 08:13 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 15:08 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-22 14:42 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 10:12 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-20 13:24 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:16 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 13:57 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-22 08:17 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201210.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-10-20 22:41 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-21 01:04 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:23 +0000
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-10-21 19:33 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Greg Martin <greg@softsprocket.com> - 2012-10-21 13:20 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-10-23 15:44 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-23 20:01 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-24 12:01 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-24 20:31 +0200
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-20 06:13 -0700
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:25 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:54 -0700
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Old Wolf <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz> - 2012-11-11 14:58 -0800
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2012-11-12 10:33 +0000
      Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-18 12:19 +1300
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-18 07:06 +0000
      Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-10-18 11:36 +0200
        Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 09:28 +0000
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-10-19 12:07 +0200
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gus gassmann <gus@nospam.com> - 2012-10-19 08:03 -0300
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201210.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-10-20 07:14 +0200
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-19 06:58 -0400
  Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-17 08:29 -0400
  Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2012-10-17 08:35 -0400
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-17 08:49 -0400
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-18 07:10 +0000
      Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-10-18 12:11 -0700
        Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 09:30 +0000
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-10-19 03:05 -0700
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-19 07:37 -0400

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