Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #19115

Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct"

From	Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct"
Date	2012-10-20 05:55 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<k5tedc$dpd$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <k5r6da$at5$1@speranza.aioe.org> <e9i8l9-t0k.ln1@wilbur.25thandClement.com> <k5sgnj$n8t$1@speranza.aioe.org> <5081D9DA.6020103@verizon.net> <aee54mFnpi3U5@mid.individual.net>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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In comp.lang.c++ Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm sure that's quite normal thinking for anyone who would label
>> themselves a "C++ programmer". However, you should not be surprised to
>> find very different thinking among the people frequenting comp.lang.c,
>> where this message is also cross-posted. Anyone bothering to monitor
>> comp.lang.c (and there's a fair number of us) can reasonably be expected
>> to choose the simplicity of C over the complexity of C++ in at least
>> some circumstances. You might question the validity of that choice, but
>> you can't expect such questions to go over very well in that newsgroup.
> 
> A one who works with and enjoys both languages, the statement "choose 
> the simplicity of C over the complexity of C++" is one I have trouble 
> with.  C is undoubtedly a simpler language, but the the solutions to 
> many day to day problems are undoubtedly simpler in C++.
> 
> So the choice is often "do I want the simple solution in a more complex 
> language, or the more complex solution in a simple language?".

That's also the problem I find with the "argument from simplicity",
as one could call it.

When talking about C, making the simplicity argument is basically a
category error. The argument is trying to appeal to the notion that
simpler higher-level languages (such as Lisp) are generally considered
better than overly complex languages. In those languages it is often
so that the same thing can be expressed in a much simpler and more
brief manner, and the result is much "leaner and cleaner" code than
in overly complicated languages. (For example the language specification
of Lisp is relatively short, yet the language itself is incredibly
expressive and powerful.)

In other words, a simple language helps writing simple programs (that
are nevertheless very expressive.)

However, in the case of C the "simplicity" is not actually a factor
that helps writing simple programs. On the contrary, the "simplicity"
of the language is actually a limiting factor. Rather than help, it
impedes the writing of simple programs, requiring many of even the
simplest tasks to have complex and error-prone implementations. It
often requires following strict coding conventions to avoid mistakes,
coding conventions that are completely unnecessary in truly simple
languages. Truly simple languages allow the programmer to concentrate
purely on the task at hand, without having to pay any attention to such
trivial and inconsequential matters as memory management and such.
C isn't that kind of language. In C the "simplicity" forces the
programmer to write complex programs that need to constantly be careful
about things that should normally be non-issues.

This doesn't mean that C++ is a simple language in this regard.
However, C++ is a lot *better* in this regard than C. Yes, there are
coding conventions that need to be followed eg. because of memory
management reasons, but those conventions are simpler and easier to
follow, and much of the work is done automatically by the compiler.
C++ also offers many tools (in both native syntax and in the form of
the standard library) that makes many, many tasks a lot easier and
simpler than in C.

The typical arguments that C++ is so much larger and more complex
than C, and that it requires significantly more learning, ring quite
hollow to the experienced C++ programmer. Why would it matter to me
in the least bit if the language is large and requires a lot of
learning? That's completely inconsequential to me. It may be relevant
if we were talking about what a newbie programmer should learn, but
it's completely irrelevant to me. I know how to use the language
efficiently, and when given the choice between C or C++, there's just
no choice to make, because it's obvious. I choose the one that allows
me to implement the task at hand more easily, ie. C++.

Thread

C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gus gassmann <gus@nospam.com> - 2012-10-17 06:49 -0300
  Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-10-17 13:08 +0200
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-17 08:19 -0400
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-10-17 15:19 +0000
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gus gassmann <gus@nospam.com> - 2012-10-17 18:47 -0300
      Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2012-10-17 22:46 +0000
        Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-18 07:13 +0000
      Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-17 18:58 -0400
        Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-18 09:55 +0200
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-10-18 10:13 +0200
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-18 08:23 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-10-18 11:17 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-18 23:37 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:35 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-19 11:40 -0700
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-18 21:45 +1300
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:03 +0100
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-18 07:18 -0400
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-18 17:43 +0200
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2012-10-18 13:52 -0700
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-19 21:34 +1300
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-19 11:03 +0200
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-10-20 14:03 +0100
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 09:27 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-19 13:43 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 12:46 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 10:14 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2012-10-19 14:53 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-19 13:52 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-19 14:13 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 21:24 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-20 11:47 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 21:22 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2012-10-19 11:21 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 21:29 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-19 18:53 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-20 12:13 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-20 05:55 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-20 13:24 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-10-20 12:54 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-20 06:45 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-21 09:20 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-20 22:28 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:05 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 02:23 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:32 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-10-21 11:56 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 12:54 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ptyxs <kerloch@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 13:43 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-10-26 03:37 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-26 07:33 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:14 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:08 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-20 13:44 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-21 09:09 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-20 22:31 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 02:11 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-21 20:28 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:40 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 13:31 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-22 08:41 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 16:24 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-21 15:05 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-22 07:52 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-22 14:02 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-10-26 03:41 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-26 07:53 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-26 09:51 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-26 13:48 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-26 07:35 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2012-10-26 18:42 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-27 04:21 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-27 05:04 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2012-10-27 08:06 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-27 06:50 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2012-10-27 11:13 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-27 12:02 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2012-10-27 15:46 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-10-27 20:24 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-27 20:11 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:43 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-27 13:52 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-27 14:40 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" google@ianshome.com - 2012-10-23 12:03 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:35 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-27 14:24 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:36 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:08 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 02:51 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-21 21:09 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 12:16 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 11:55 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 13:47 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-22 08:46 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 03:02 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-22 08:04 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Tobias Müller <troplin@bluewin.ch> - 2012-10-21 18:54 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-22 08:49 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Tobias Müller <troplin@bluewin.ch> - 2012-10-21 20:07 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-21 13:53 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-22 09:54 +1300
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 02:41 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Tobias Müller <troplin@bluewin.ch> - 2012-10-22 06:12 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-10-22 20:52 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-22 16:30 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-23 11:22 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-10-23 16:58 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 02:22 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:30 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-20 09:06 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-20 07:43 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:11 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 11:56 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-21 07:43 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2012-10-21 10:36 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-22 08:13 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 15:08 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-22 14:42 -0400
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-10-21 10:12 +0100
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-20 13:24 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:16 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2012-10-21 13:57 -0500
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-22 08:17 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201210.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-10-20 22:41 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-21 01:04 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:23 +0000
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-10-21 19:33 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Greg Martin <greg@softsprocket.com> - 2012-10-21 13:20 -0700
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-10-23 15:44 +0000
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-23 20:01 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2012-10-24 12:01 +0200
                Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-10-24 20:31 +0200
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-20 06:13 -0700
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-21 07:25 +0000
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-27 05:54 -0700
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Old Wolf <oldwolf@inspire.net.nz> - 2012-11-11 14:58 -0800
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2012-11-12 10:33 +0000
      Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-10-18 12:19 +1300
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-18 07:06 +0000
      Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-10-18 11:36 +0200
        Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 09:28 +0000
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-10-19 12:07 +0200
            Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" gus gassmann <gus@nospam.com> - 2012-10-19 08:03 -0300
              Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201210.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-10-20 07:14 +0200
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-19 06:58 -0400
  Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-17 08:29 -0400
  Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2012-10-17 08:35 -0400
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-17 08:49 -0400
    Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-18 07:10 +0000
      Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-10-18 12:11 -0700
        Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2012-10-19 09:30 +0000
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-10-19 03:05 -0700
          Re: C/C++ question about dynamic "static struct" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-10-19 07:37 -0400

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