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Re: things i would ban from clc

From Don Y <this@isnotme.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: things i would ban from clc
Date 2012-03-13 11:25 -0700
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <jjo3e8$ovm$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <jjmvbb$pu2$1@speranza.aioe.org> <jjn07n$rv2$1@speranza.aioe.org> <lnsjhcd5cj.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <jjo1lk$jrm$1@speranza.aioe.org> <87zkbktlvn.fsf@blp.benpfaff.org>

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Hi Ben,

On 3/13/2012 11:07 AM, Ben Pfaff wrote:
> Don Y<this@isnotme.com>  writes:
>
>> On 3/13/2012 5:59 AM, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>> Don Y<this@isnotme.com>   writes:
>>>> Why not support for *tasking* -- native to the language
>>>> (instead of in a library!) like Limbo?
>>>
>>> The 2011 ISO C standard includes (optional) support for threading.
>>>
>>> See<http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf>
>>> section 7.26.
>>
>> OK.  But that's just another standard library.  The language
>> itself doesn't include those provisions.
>
> What's the advantage of putting threading into language instead
> of the library?  (You explained *how* Limbo integrates threading
> into the language, but not why it does.)

It elevates threads to first-class objects.  It recognizes
that programs are more "collections of threads" than "monolithic,
single-threaded processes" that have to *struggle* to
CO-operate.

C could have put all floating point math operations
(including +, -, etc.) into a "floating point library".
Instead, floats/doubles are an integral part of the
language -- even on platforms where supporting
floats is "troublesome" (no FP hardware).

Moving things into the language also changes who is
responsible for the implementation and performance of
the feature.  In Limbo, the "compiler"/runtime VM handle
ALL of the mechanisms associated with these features.
it means that those features are accessible to your
code on any platform that can support Limbo programs.
(double edged sword... if you don't like how they do
it, you can't just swap out that aspect like you can with
a separate library).

I also think you end up with skinnier interfaces and
"simpler" (cleaner?) syntax.

(Again, all this comes at a price -- you don't have
the same sort of control that you do when the
*mechanisms* are "exported" in a library... that you
could potentially *modify*)

As to the creators' reasons... <shrug>  you would have
to ask them (Pike, Dorward, Winterbottom)

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Thread

things i would ban from clc jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-03-11 23:05 +0000
  Re: things i would ban from clc Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-03-12 10:33 -0700
    Re: things i would ban from clc gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2012-03-12 23:57 +0000
  Re: things i would ban from clc jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-03-12 18:44 +0100
    Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-12 12:26 -0700
      Re: things i would ban from clc "osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2012-03-12 14:36 -0600
        Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-12 13:57 -0700
      Re: things i would ban from clc James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-03-12 17:34 -0400
        Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-12 15:00 -0700
          Re: things i would ban from clc James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-03-12 18:21 -0400
            Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-12 15:43 -0700
              Re: things i would ban from clc jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-03-12 23:53 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-12 17:17 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-03-13 09:09 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 01:24 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-03-13 05:59 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 10:55 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2012-03-13 11:07 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 11:25 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2012-03-13 11:32 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-03-13 12:18 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 16:13 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 13:49 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-03-13 17:14 -0400
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 14:35 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-03-13 18:09 -0400
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 16:06 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-03-14 08:18 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-03-14 10:07 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-14 12:41 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-03-14 21:53 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-15 14:16 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-03-18 07:14 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-03-14 10:39 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-03-13 14:33 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 14:40 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-13 16:25 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-14 00:51 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-14 14:25 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-15 13:40 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-18 17:05 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-23 11:59 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-23 17:02 -0500
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-23 16:51 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-03-24 07:16 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-27 11:26 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-03-23 19:43 +0000
                Re: things i would ban from clc Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-03-23 19:45 +0000
                Re: things i would ban from clc Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-03-23 23:49 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-03-24 11:54 +1300
                Re: things i would ban from clc Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-03-24 09:26 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-03-26 07:31 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-03-24 05:45 +0000
                Re: things i would ban from clc Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-03-24 09:31 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-03-13 14:34 -0400
                Re: things i would ban from clc Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-13 16:18 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-03-14 08:18 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-14 14:06 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-03-15 15:22 +0000
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-15 12:26 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-03-15 21:28 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-15 13:49 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-03-15 16:36 +0000
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-15 12:16 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-03-16 00:13 +0000
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-15 20:40 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-03-13 01:52 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-03-13 11:31 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-03-13 11:41 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-03-13 06:06 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-03-13 15:06 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-03-13 07:46 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-03-13 19:08 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-03-13 13:20 +0000
                Re: things i would ban from clc Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-03-13 20:41 +0100
                Re: things i would ban from clc Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-03-13 19:34 +0000
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 16:14 -0700
                Re: things i would ban from clc Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-03-13 23:28 +0000
                Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 21:18 -0700
      Re: things i would ban from clc Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-03-13 20:19 +1300
        Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-13 01:09 -0700
          Re: things i would ban from clc Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-03-13 21:32 +1300
  Re: things i would ban from clc nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-03-13 01:52 -0700
    Re: things i would ban from clc "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-03-13 11:31 +0100
      Re: things i would ban from clc nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-03-14 01:18 -0700
        Re: things i would ban from clc Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2012-03-14 12:09 -0700
  Re: things i would ban from clc ArifulHossain tuhin <etothepowerpi@gmail.com> - 2012-03-14 13:01 -0700

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