Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #479518

Re: "Einstein's Bad"

Subject	Re: "Einstein's Bad"
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
References	(1 earlier) <g70isnFlb45U1@mid.individual.net> <MeLOD.9248$Xv2.466@fx01.am4> <g73btqF9feaU1@mid.individual.net> <Jb3PD.293951$el1.208051@fx34.am4> <pukd07$ght$1@pcls7.std.com>
From	Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com>
Message-ID	<iyrPD.474247$1C7.405723@fx38.am4> (permalink)
Organization	virginmedia.com
Date	2018-12-10 10:50 +0000

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On 10/12/2018 00:45, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Keith Stein writes: 

>> " 1. Newton's equations are invariant under x' = x - vt
>>       but Maxwell's equation aren't." Einstein 

>>   .... not true eh!

> No it is true, and it was a big puzzle of the time why mechanics obeyed
> the Galilean transform relationships yet Maxwell's equations did not. > They figured they should, since ordinary mechanical relationships on a
> macroscopic scale are nothing more than electromagnetic relationships at
> a small (interatomic) scale. Yet Maxwell's equations did not!

It is true that Maxwell's  equations, as written by Einstein, DO NOT
"obey the Galilean transform relationships", yet Maxwell's equations,
as written by Maxwell, DO "obey the Galilean transform relationships".

Maxwell insisted "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" and he derived an equation which
gives the velocity of electromagnetic waves RELATIVE TO THE MEDIUM.
Einstein, on the other hand, omits the medium from Maxwell's equations,
and obtains an equation which gives the velocity of electromagnetic
waves RELATIVE TO "NOTHING", which is why Einstein had a "big puzzle".

 >> Why do you think Maxwell insisted "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" ?

 > .. that title doesn't mean anything,

It means A MEDIUM NECESSARY eh!

 > there is no verb.
 > What if the omitted verb was "isn't"?

:-)

>> Maxwell was in no doubt that his electromagnetic waves travel
>> relative to the medium/matter which they travel through,

> Again, everyone believed in an aether. You can't fault Maxwell for not
> knowing any better!

In his long "Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism" Maxwell makes
no mention of "aether". His primary example of a medium is "air",
and his only other specific example is "paraffin wax".

>> In Maxwell's theory it is the permeability and permitivity OF THE
>> MEDIUM, which determine the velocity of electromagnetic waves
>> RELATIVE TO THE MEDIUM.
> 
> No. Maxwell's equations come up with a speed of light, but the equations
> don't come up with it relative to *anything*. It is just a speed, and
> Maxwell couldn't figure out what it meant.

Maxwell never had this problem. He knew perfectly well that
the speed of light which he derived was RELATIVE TO THE MEDIUM.

> For example, there is no math
> in Maxwell's equations that has the derived speed change if "the medium"
> happened to move at a certain speed.

Maxwell certainly knew the answer to this too. If the speed of
the wave relative to the medium is w, and the speed of the medium
to you is v, then the speed of the wave relative to you is the
vector addition of w and v.

>> My assumed model, as you call it, was certainly the same as
>> that assumed by Einstein when he wrote:
> 
>> " 1. Newton's equations are invariant under x' = x - vt
>>       but Maxwell's equation aren't."  (note no t' here eh!)
> 
>> and i thank you [Sylvia] for the acknowledgement that Einstein >> is wrong, about this, at least.

> Don't accuse Einstein of believing in something he didn't. Why would he
> work on SR if he ignored math and claimed Maxwell's equations obeyed
> Galilean invariance?

Of course Einstein did not claim that Maxwell's equations obeyed
Galilean invariance, but that was because he ignored "the medium",
not because he ignored "the math" eh!

keith stein

Thread

"Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-07 11:15 +0000
  Re: "Einstein's Bad" Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-08 11:51 +1100
    Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-08 08:26 +0000
      Re: "Einstein's Bad" Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-09 13:11 +1100
        Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-09 07:08 +0000
          Re: "Einstein's Bad" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-10 00:45 +0000
            Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 10:50 +0000
              Re: "Einstein's Bad" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-10 13:08 +0000
                 "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 11:54 +0000
                Re: "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 04:13 -0800
                Re: "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 13:17 +0000
                Re: "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 23:22 -0800
              Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 07:51 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 04:21 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 20:49 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 12:55 +0000
          Re: "Einstein's Bad" Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-11 12:59 +1100
            Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 09:55 +0000
              Re: "Einstein's Bad" Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-11 22:33 +1100
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 17:29 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-11 21:14 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 07:45 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-12 03:53 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 16:27 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-12 08:40 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 18:24 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-12 13:47 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-13 00:13 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-13 06:10 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-13 08:18 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-13 23:01 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-13 16:46 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-13 18:55 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 14:41 +0000
                Have you ever read Einstein's foundation paper of Special Relativity Henry Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 15:59 +0000
                Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-14 08:11 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 18:19 +0000
                Re: the first 4 equations Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-14 13:28 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 14:45 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-14 15:04 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 02:13 +0000
                Re: the first 4 equations JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 19:16 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-14 19:22 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 06:30 +0000
                Re: the first 4 equations Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 08:38 +0000
                Re: the first 4 equations Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-15 07:58 -0800
                Re: three INCOMPATABLE equations Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 17:11 +0000
                Re: three INCOMPATABLE equations "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-15 09:15 -0800
                Re: three INCOMPATABLE equations Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-15 14:45 -0800
                Re: three INCOMPATABLE equations Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-16 00:59 +0000
                Re: then there were .......Just 3 equations eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 12:10 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 10:13 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-15 06:49 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 15:47 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-15 08:00 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 17:25 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-15 15:04 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 01:19 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 01:41 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-15 18:57 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 07:12 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-16 05:45 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 14:34 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-16 15:42 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-16 07:54 -0800
                Re: pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 17:56 +0000
                Re: pathologcal imbecile replies "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-16 10:07 -0800
                Re: pathologcal imbecile replies Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-16 18:57 +0000
                Re: pathologcal imbecile replies "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-16 11:34 -0800
                Re: pathologcal imbecile replies "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-16 11:50 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-16 13:34 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 22:13 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-16 15:38 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 01:30 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-15 18:54 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 19:01 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile continues to be  alying piece of shit "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-16 11:56 -0800
                Re: Have you ever read Einstein's foundation paper of Special Relativity Henry JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 14:20 -0800
                Re: Have you ever read Einstein's foundation paper of Special Relativity Henry Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 09:44 +0000
                Re: Have you ever read Einstein's foundation paper of Special Relativity Henry JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 14:07 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-14 08:54 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 18:11 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 09:57 -0800
  Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-07 17:08 -0800
    Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-08 08:37 +0000
      Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-08 01:38 -0800
        Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 18:47 +0000
          Re: "Einstein's Bad" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 19:17 +0000
          Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 12:51 -0800
          Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 12:54 -0800
  "keith stein, Imbecile "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-10 06:44 -0800
    Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 16:27 +0000
      Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 16:41 +0000
      Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 21:41 +0000
        Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 05:37 +0000
          Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-11 05:43 +0000
            Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 08:56 +0000
          Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 13:28 +0000
            Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 16:30 +0000
              Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 19:28 +0000
                Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 19:56 +0000
    Re: "keith stein, Imbecile replied: Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 10:32 +0000

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