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Re: "Einstein's Bad"

From moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: "Einstein's Bad"
Date 2018-12-10 00:45 +0000
Organization The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID <pukd07$ght$1@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
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Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> writes:

>On 09/12/2018 02:11, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 8/12/2018 7:26 pm, Keith Stein wrote:
>>> On 08/12/2018 00:51, Sylvia Else wrote:

>>>> What do you think that statement means?
>>>
>>> Good question. I mean that there is a universal time which is the same 
>>> in all frames of reference and that "laws of motion are the same in 
>>> all inertial frames".
>> 
>> So you're assuming a particular model of space-time.

>I am assuming the model which every physicist prior to 1905
>assumed, and indeed the same model which Einstein was assuming

Einstein knew that was wrong, which is the whole reason he worked on the
SR problem in the first place!

>when he made his incorrect claim which we were talking about:

>" 1. Newton's equations are invariant under x' = x - vt
>      but Maxwell's equation aren't."

>Which is simple not true eh!

No it is true, and it was a big puzzle of the time why mechanics obeyed
the Galilean transform relationships yet Maxwell's equations did not.
They figured they should, since ordinary mechanical relationships on a
macroscopic scale are nothing more than electromagnetic relationships at
a small (interatomic) scale. Yet Maxwell's equations did not!

>>> Maxwell's equations, as written by Maxwell, in which he insisted
>>> "A MEDIUM NECESSARY", are just as 'invariant', imho, as is the
>>> equation for acoustic pressure waves.
>> 
>> Maxwell was a man of his time. One issue that became apparent with is 
>> equations is that they give a velocity for electromagnetic waves, but do 
>> not indicate what that velocity is relative to.

>Why do you think Maxwell insisted "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" ?

That sentence no verb. As stated, Maxwell was a man of his time and 
everyone back then believed in an aether, so likely so did he. Also
by itself that title doesn't mean anything, there is no verb. What if the
omitted verb was "isn't"?

>Maxwell was in no doubt that his electromagnetic waves travel
>relative to the medium/matter which they travel through,

Again, everyone believed in an aether. You can't fault Maxwell for not
knowing any better!

>  as indeed do all waves which obey the wave equation eh!

No, the wave equations do not require a medium.

>> but prior to Special Relativity, 
>> it would have seemed that there had to be a medium which the equations 
>> somehow failed to mention.
>>
>In Maxwell's theory it is the permeability and permitivity OF THE
>MEDIUM, which determine the velocity of electromagnetic waves
>RELATIVE TO THE MEDIUM.

No. Maxwell's equations come up with a speed of light, but the equations
don't come up with it relative to *anything*. It is just a speed, and
Maxwell couldn't figure out what it meant. For example, there is no math
in Maxwell's equations that has the derived speed change if "the medium"  
happened to move at a certain speed.

>My assumed model, as you call it, was certainly the same as
>that assumed by Einstein when he wrote:

>" 1. Newton's equations are invariant under x' = x - vt
>      but Maxwell's equation aren't."  (note no t' here eh!)

>and i thank you for the acknowledgement that Einstein is wrong,
>about this, at least.

Don't accuse Einstein of believing in something he didn't. Why would he
work on SR if he ignored math and claimed Maxwell's equations obeyed
Galilean invariance?

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Thread

"Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-07 11:15 +0000
  Re: "Einstein's Bad" Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-08 11:51 +1100
    Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-08 08:26 +0000
      Re: "Einstein's Bad" Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-09 13:11 +1100
        Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-09 07:08 +0000
          Re: "Einstein's Bad" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-10 00:45 +0000
            Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 10:50 +0000
              Re: "Einstein's Bad" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-10 13:08 +0000
                 "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 11:54 +0000
                Re: "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 04:13 -0800
                Re: "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 13:17 +0000
                Re: "A MEDIUM NECESSARY" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 23:22 -0800
              Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 07:51 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 04:21 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 20:49 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 12:55 +0000
          Re: "Einstein's Bad" Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-11 12:59 +1100
            Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 09:55 +0000
              Re: "Einstein's Bad" Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-11 22:33 +1100
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 17:29 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-11 21:14 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 07:45 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-12 03:53 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 16:27 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-12 08:40 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 18:24 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-12 13:47 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-13 00:13 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-13 06:10 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-13 08:18 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-13 23:01 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-13 16:46 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-13 18:55 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 14:41 +0000
                Have you ever read Einstein's foundation paper of Special Relativity Henry Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 15:59 +0000
                Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-14 08:11 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 18:19 +0000
                Re: the first 4 equations Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-14 13:28 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 14:45 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-14 15:04 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 02:13 +0000
                Re: the first 4 equations JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 19:16 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-14 19:22 -0800
                Re: the first 4 equations Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 06:30 +0000
                Re: the first 4 equations Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 08:38 +0000
                Re: the first 4 equations Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-15 07:58 -0800
                Re: three INCOMPATABLE equations Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 17:11 +0000
                Re: three INCOMPATABLE equations "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-15 09:15 -0800
                Re: three INCOMPATABLE equations Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-15 14:45 -0800
                Re: three INCOMPATABLE equations Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-16 00:59 +0000
                Re: then there were .......Just 3 equations eh! Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 12:10 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 10:13 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-15 06:49 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 15:47 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-15 08:00 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 17:25 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-15 15:04 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 01:19 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 01:41 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-15 18:57 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 07:12 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-16 05:45 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 14:34 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-16 15:42 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-16 07:54 -0800
                Re: pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 17:56 +0000
                Re: pathologcal imbecile replies "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-16 10:07 -0800
                Re: pathologcal imbecile replies Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-16 18:57 +0000
                Re: pathologcal imbecile replies "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-16 11:34 -0800
                Re: pathologcal imbecile replies "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-16 11:50 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-16 13:34 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 22:13 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-16 15:38 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 01:30 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-15 18:54 -0800
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile replies Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 19:01 +0000
                Re: Keith Stein, pathologcal imbecile continues to be  alying piece of shit "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-16 11:56 -0800
                Re: Have you ever read Einstein's foundation paper of Special Relativity Henry JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 14:20 -0800
                Re: Have you ever read Einstein's foundation paper of Special Relativity Henry Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 09:44 +0000
                Re: Have you ever read Einstein's foundation paper of Special Relativity Henry JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 14:07 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-14 08:54 -0800
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 18:11 +0000
                Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 09:57 -0800
  Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-07 17:08 -0800
    Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-08 08:37 +0000
      Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-08 01:38 -0800
        Re: "Einstein's Bad" Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 18:47 +0000
          Re: "Einstein's Bad" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 19:17 +0000
          Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 12:51 -0800
          Re: "Einstein's Bad" JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 12:54 -0800
  "keith stein, Imbecile "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-10 06:44 -0800
    Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 16:27 +0000
      Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 16:41 +0000
      Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-10 21:41 +0000
        Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 05:37 +0000
          Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-11 05:43 +0000
            Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 08:56 +0000
          Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 13:28 +0000
            Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-11 16:30 +0000
              Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 19:28 +0000
                Re: The Speed of Light is Slowing Down Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-12 19:56 +0000
    Re: "keith stein, Imbecile replied: Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 10:32 +0000

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