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| From | jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.std.c, comp.lang.c |
| Subject | The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe |
| Date | 2011-07-07 12:33 +0200 |
| Organization | lccwin |
| Message-ID | <iv422a$33k$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink) |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
The committee has decided, for reasons unknown to me (there is no
explanation why is this necessary anywhere) to go on with the flawed
Dinkum library specs and proclaim that library as the new standard specs
for the whole language, what will surely please Plauger but leaves the
rest of us with a pile of errors.
I posted in this group on June 8th, 2009, a detailed critique of that
library. Two years later all the original errors are there, together
with new ones. I will repost again then, the most glaring errors with
the hope that the committee corrects them before is too late and stops
this whole idea.
1) The specs use concepts from C++ without furnishing the slightest
explanation of how those concepts should be understood within the C
language.
Examples:
--------
7.25.1.3
TSS_DTOR_ITERATIONS
which expands to an integer constant expression representing the
maximum number of times that destructors will be called when a
thread terminates.
The committee thinks apparently that the term "destructors" is
common in C so that doesn't need any definition or explanation of what
that should be in the context of the C language. The term doesn't even
appear in the index nor is explained anywhere.
7.25.1.4
cnd_t
which is a complete object type that holds an identifier for a
condition variable;
How can a type "hold an identifier" ??? The committee defines in
6.4.2.1.2 an identifier as a sequence of letters that designates
one or more entities.
Now, we have the opposite: a type holds an identifier and nowhere
is explained what that should mean!
2) The proposed functions are absurd.
Take, for instance, nothing less than the thread creation function
thrd_create:
int thrd_create(thrd_t *thr, thrd_start_t func,void *arg);
As you can see, there are *no arguments that can be passed to the
underlying operating system* to further specify the newly created
thread. (The "args" arument is an argument for the thread).
The pthreads standard (POSIX) proposes an "attributes" argument. The
Microsoft threads propose a "security attributes" and a set of flags
that further specify the newly created thread. The C API proposes
NOTHING so it is impossible to use.
Since there is no way to specify the attributes, this function MUST
use the default attributes that are NOWHERE specified. This means
that two compiler systems could very well produce two different sets
of attributes to be passed to the underlying thread creation
functions so that we would have a differnt behavior for the same
source compiled in the same machine. This is completely ridiculous!
The mutex creation functions do not specify any security/ownership
specifications either.
Anybody can use anything. This will force all
developers that run in a security sensitive environment to reject
this specs. C stayed in the single user era.
The specifications are completely unusable in many other functions:
For instance:
The thrd_detach function tells the operating system to dispose of
any resources allocated to the thread identified by thr when that
thread terminates.
That's new to me. The OS should free all memory allocated by the
thread? Close all files? This is highly system dependent and
many systems could very well not do the cleanup until the process
that created those ressources stops.
3) New types are defined without any specification.
Example:
-------
The "xtime" data type is defined as
struct xtime { time_t sec; long nanoseconds; };
What is the epoch of the "sec" member? Nobody knows. When you call
a function using an "xtime" as argument with
(struct xtime) {5,0}
means:
A)
I call this function with a timeout of five seconds, i.e. the "sec"
epoch starts running at the instant of function call.
B)
I call it with a timeout of January first 1970 and five seconds,
i.e. since the "sec" member is a time_t and time_t variables are
used to store CALENDAR TIMES (as per difftime specs in 7.26.2.1)
I specify a timeout that has already expired.
Nowhere in the standard is the "xtime" explained or further described.
The committee supposes that it suffices to name a member "sec" for
its meaning to be crystal clear.
I fear that is not the case.
4) The new types aren't connected to the rest of the language.
How do you convert an "xtime" into a character string?
Does strftime accept the new type?
Note that nowhere was specified that time_t shuld be in seconds
since the creation of the language. Now, the committee decides
that time_t is in seconds without giving any second thoughts
to this change. There is a CLOCKS_PER_SEC macro defined in the
standard a few pages after this specs. Is that obsolete?
Should we divide the "sec" member by CLOCKS_PER_SECOND to
obtain the actual seconds?
Not a word of those problems, nothing. This would be comic
if it weren't so sad.
5) Error analysis is very difficult.
The proposed functions return the enum value "thrd_error" if
SOMETHING goes wrong. Impossible to know WHAT did go wrong since
nowhere is specified if errno should have a value set or how
to figure out WHAT HAPPENED!!! There is NO WAY that the running
program can communicate the reasons of failure so that we are
left in the dark as to why each error happens. The Microsoft API
specifies GetLastError() and pthreads have errno and other
mechanisms to further speicify what kind of error happened. This
specs ignore all that. It doesn't work, now go figure what happens
during HOURS of debugging!
I am repeating here in an expanded form the critique that I wrote
in comp.std.c in a message on June 8th 2009. There was no answer then,
and there has been no change since. ALl errors I pointed out then are
still in the specs.
I hope this time they will listen or at least justify what they are
doing. Copy/Paste of Plauger's library docs is not enough to specify
a change to the C language, excuse me.
Back to comp.std.c | Previous | Next — Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 12:33 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Juha Niskanen <juniskan@paju.oulu.fi.nospam> - 2011-07-07 12:46 +0000
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 17:26 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 13:12 +0000
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 17:11 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-08 09:23 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 15:20 +0000
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-07 07:36 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 17:09 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-07 18:00 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 18:20 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Wojtek Lerch <wojtek_l@yahoo.ca> - 2011-07-07 12:31 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-07 09:40 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Wojtek Lerch <wojtek_l@yahoo.ca> - 2011-07-07 14:42 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 12:03 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-07-07 19:27 +0000
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 09:14 +1200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Wojtek Lerch <wojtek_l@yahoo.ca> - 2011-07-07 23:58 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 16:24 +1200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-08 12:14 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-10 00:02 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-10 14:47 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-11 21:05 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-11 22:50 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-11 23:56 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-12 07:50 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-16 01:14 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-16 10:08 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-07-18 11:11 +0900
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-18 21:50 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-19 08:36 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-21 11:56 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-22 20:31 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-22 21:36 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-23 10:50 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-23 20:29 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard... Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-08-03 15:50 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-07 23:07 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 23:32 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jameskuyper <jameskuyper@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 15:25 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe sfuerst <svfuerst@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 16:12 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-07 22:41 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-07-08 12:47 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe sfuerst <svfuerst@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 13:11 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-07-08 16:56 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-09 23:55 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe sfuerst <svfuerst@gmail.com> - 2011-07-09 18:40 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-08 01:16 +0200
some sane words, for sure "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-07 18:33 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jameskuyper <jameskuyper@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 08:34 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe sfuerst <svfuerst@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 10:47 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-09 06:57 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-09 13:59 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-09 14:45 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-07-10 15:47 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-11 13:38 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-11 16:12 +0300
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 23:32 -0500
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-08 10:09 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 10:31 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-07-07 14:32 -0700
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 00:38 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 17:10 +1200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-08 07:46 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 23:52 +1200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-08 08:23 -0400
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-08 14:54 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-09 08:26 +1200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-07-08 14:47 +0000
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Juha Niskanen <juniskan@paju.oulu.fi.nospam> - 2011-07-08 07:52 +0000
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-09 14:23 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-10 00:59 +0200
Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 19:05 -0700
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