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Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe

From jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net>
Newsgroups comp.std.c, comp.lang.c
Subject Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe
Date 2011-07-07 18:20 +0200
Organization lccwin
Message-ID <iv4mcd$mm8$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <iv422a$33k$1@speranza.aioe.org> <55925f5d-38e3-4215-b71c-e5a976891ffa@hd10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <iv4i6t$bcd$1@speranza.aioe.org> <4E15D832.1040106@loria.fr>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Le 07/07/11 18:00, Jens Gustedt a écrit :
> Am 07.07.2011 17:09, schrieb jacob navia:
>> You have just shown us your ignorance.
>
> I don't think that bashing on people will bring your issue forward.
>

Well, he started his message with

"Another rant"

That's OK?

My tone was appropiate for his tone.


>>> And C threads wouldn't pass "default attributes" to some
>>> underlying system, they just behave as defined by the C standard.
>>
>> And you think they will not use the underlying operating system or
>> or what? The underlying OS implementations REQUIRE those parameters
>> so you HAVE to pass something in there.
>
> Yes, certainly. An implementation of the C1x stuff has to provide the
> right arguments to the OS implementation of threads, e.g if the the
> underlying implementation is pthread, it has to set the attribute
> argument properly, if the default for pthread is not conforming to
> C1x. I don't see a particular difficulty in that one, it is the C1x
> thrd implementation that has to provide these arguments.
>
> You would be right in saying that this model is kind of restrictive,
> allowing for only one execution model. In particular it is a pity that
> it doesn't allow to start threads in a detached state.
>

Are the threads visible to child processes? Microsoft requires a
"security attributes" parameter that defines if the thread is inherited
to child process or not. Compilar "A" under windows decides that the
threads aren't visible, compiler "B" decides that they are. Which is
right?

>> The standard doesn't say if the new thread starts suspended or not,
>> Compiler "A" starts the thread in a suspended state, compiler "B"
>> starts without suspension. Which is right?
>
> Hm, since it doesn't define the term "suspended state" and supension
> of a thread is only done via a sleep function for a limited time, I
> don't really understand your issue here.
>

A thread is suspended when the OS doesn't run it and doesn't schedule
it.

>>> Your comments on "thrd_detach" can only be interpreted as a deliberate
>>> misunderstanding. Allocated memory and opened files are _not_
>>> "resources allocated to the thread".
>>
>> no? Then WHAT are those "ressources"?  They aren't even specified!
>
> Here, a better wording would probably be appropriate. I think
> injecting the word "specific" before "resources" would already be a
> good disambiguation.
>

It should be clear from the specifications text what those ressources are.

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Thread

The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 12:33 +0200
  Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Juha Niskanen <juniskan@paju.oulu.fi.nospam> - 2011-07-07 12:46 +0000
    Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 17:26 +0200
  Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 13:12 +0000
    Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 17:11 +0200
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-08 09:23 -0400
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 15:20 +0000
  Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-07 07:36 -0700
    Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 17:09 +0200
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-07 18:00 +0200
        Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 18:20 +0200
  Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Wojtek Lerch <wojtek_l@yahoo.ca> - 2011-07-07 12:31 -0400
    Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-07 09:40 -0700
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Wojtek Lerch <wojtek_l@yahoo.ca> - 2011-07-07 14:42 -0400
        Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 12:03 -0700
          Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-07-07 19:27 +0000
    Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 09:14 +1200
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Wojtek Lerch <wojtek_l@yahoo.ca> - 2011-07-07 23:58 -0400
        Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 16:24 +1200
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-08 12:14 +0200
        Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-10 00:02 +0200
          Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-10 14:47 +0200
            Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-11 21:05 +0200
              Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-11 22:50 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-11 23:56 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-12 07:50 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-16 01:14 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-16 10:08 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-07-18 11:11 +0900
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-18 21:50 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-19 08:36 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-21 11:56 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-22 20:31 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-22 21:36 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-23 10:50 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-23 20:29 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard... Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-08-03 15:50 +0200
  Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-07 23:07 +0200
    Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 23:32 +0200
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jameskuyper <jameskuyper@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 15:25 -0700
        Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe sfuerst <svfuerst@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 16:12 -0700
          Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-07 22:41 -0400
          Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-07-08 12:47 -0700
            Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe sfuerst <svfuerst@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 13:11 -0700
              Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-07-08 16:56 -0700
              Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-09 23:55 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe sfuerst <svfuerst@gmail.com> - 2011-07-09 18:40 -0700
        Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-08 01:16 +0200
          some sane words, for sure "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-07 18:33 -0700
          Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jameskuyper <jameskuyper@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 08:34 -0700
            Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe sfuerst <svfuerst@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 10:47 -0700
              Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-09 06:57 -0400
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-09 13:59 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-09 14:45 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-07-10 15:47 -0700
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de> - 2011-07-11 13:38 +0200
                Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-11 16:12 +0300
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 23:32 -0500
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-08 10:09 -0400
        Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 10:31 -0400
  Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-07-07 14:32 -0700
  Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 00:38 -0400
  Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 17:10 +1200
    Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-08 07:46 -0400
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 23:52 +1200
        Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-08 08:23 -0400
          Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-08 14:54 +0200
          Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-09 08:26 +1200
        Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-07-08 14:47 +0000
  Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Juha Niskanen <juniskan@paju.oulu.fi.nospam> - 2011-07-08 07:52 +0000
    Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-09 14:23 +0200
    Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-10 00:59 +0200
      Re: The threading specs in the standard: a new catastrophe Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 19:05 -0700

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