Re: Electric field

Newsgroups	sci.physics
Date	2016-07-25 12:16 -0700
References	(3 earlier) <4272c61e-d89b-4fb4-9f99-1c770604e4f1@googlegroups.com> <k4c3pbhgss9el7mhib6jblvdmh6otfl0sj@4ax.com> <7951099.CDJkKcVGEf@PointedEars.de> <ca9f8a54-d3be-4c9d-82be-7a74b9cf3472@googlegroups.com> <1707249.usQuhbGJ8B@PointedEars.de>
Message-ID	<fa41b4c7-c11b-4cc7-bb66-9b48e39de034@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Electric field
From	mapou001@gmail.com

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On Monday, July 25, 2016 at 9:43:47 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> mapou001@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, July 24, 2016 at 10:43:08 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
> > wrote:
> >> Michael J.  Strickland wrote:
> >> > That field around the stationary charge "caused by photons" propagates
> >> > at v = c (as do photons).
> >> 
> >> Nonsense.  By *definition*, an electro*static*, or put more simply,
> >> electric, field does _not_ propagate; it is just there, it is *static*.
> >> What *does* propagate are *changes* in that field, and *they* propagate
> >> at the same speed that light propagates in the medium that the electric
> >> field is permeating (short: at the speed of light), which for all media
> >> other than vacuum is *slower* than c, and *only for vacuum* is c.
> > 
> > The fact is that changes in the electrostatic field do not propagate at c
> > even if the so-called "virtual" photons do.
> 
> As for vacuum, you are wrong.  As for other media, the propagation speed of 
> changes is less than c, but equal to the speed of light in that medium.

Your opinion don't mean shit to me. I AM right.

> > Experiments have shown that particles react to where a moving
> > electrostatic charge actually is as opposed to where it was if the changes
> > in the field propagated at c.
> 
> Cite evidence.

For one, here's what relativist Steven Carlip wrote about it. He is comparing gravity to the electrostatic force:

Link: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/grav_speed.html

[begin quote]
In the simple newtonian model, gravity propagates instantaneously: the force exerted by a massive object points directly toward that object's present position.  For example, even though the Sun is 500 light seconds from the Earth, newtonian gravity describes a force on Earth directed towards the Sun's position "now," not its position 500 seconds ago.  Putting a "light travel delay" (technically called "retardation") into newtonian gravity would make orbits unstable, leading to predictions that clearly contradict Solar System observations.

In general relativity, on the other hand, gravity propagates at the speed of light; that is, the motion of a massive object creates a distortion in the curvature of spacetime that moves outward at light speed.  This might seem to contradict the Solar System observations described above, but remember that general relativity is conceptually very different from newtonian gravity, so a direct comparison is not so simple.  Strictly speaking, gravity is not a "force" in general relativity, and a description in terms of speed and direction can be tricky.  For weak fields, though, one can describe the theory in a sort of newtonian language.  In that case, one finds that the "force" in GR is not quite central—it does not point directly towards the source of the gravitational field—and that it depends on velocity as well as position.  The net result is that the effect of propagation delay is almost exactly cancelled, and general relativity very nearly reproduces the newtonian result.

This cancellation may seem less strange if one notes that a similar effect occurs in electromagnetism.  ***If a charged particle is moving at a constant velocity, it exerts a force that points toward its present position, not its retarded position***, even though electromagnetic interactions certainly move at the speed of light.
[end quote] Emphasis added.

Carlip refers to the Feynman Lectures as evidence. But Carlip, being a relativist cannot accept the experimental results at face value since they contradict Big Brother Einstein. He has to introduce "subtleties" (i.e., unfalsifiable lies) to force-fit the observation into his chicken shit Einsteinian model:

[begin quote]
Here, as in general relativity, subtleties in the nature of the interaction "conspire" to disguise the effect of propagation delay.

[...]

For a good reference to the electromagnetic case, see

: R.P. Feynman, R.B. Leighton, and M. Sands, The Feynman Lectures on Physics, Chapter II-21 (Addison-Wesley, 1989).
[end quote]

> > How is that possible?
> 
> Maybe errors in experiment setup or in measurements.  It happens to the best 
> of us (recently, professional scientists in Italy claimed to have found a 
> particle that moves faster than c; it turned out that the experiment setup 
> was not completely OK, which modified the measurements).

You don't know what you are talking about.

> > It's because the field is nonlocal.
> 
> Do you even know what that term means?

Fuck you. I ain't your dog. I'm teaching you something that you did not know. Don't act like you're the teacher here. You should at least be grateful.

> > The charged particle and its emitted photons continually maintain a
> > perfectly symmetrical (spherical) electrostatic field regardless of the
> > movement of the source
> 
> No.

Fuck you again. I ain't your dog.

> > or how far the photons are from the source.
> > A nonspherical field would break a symmetry conservation principle and
> > result in a lopsided or imbalanced universe.
> 
> Not even wrong.

Eat shit.

> > Of course, gutless and lying relativists […]
> 
> This is where I stop reading.  Get well soon.
> 
> > ahahahaha...AHAHAHAHA...ahahahaha...
> 
> “hanson”, yes?

Fuck you and the mule you sleep with, asshole. I ain't nobody's dog. Don't even bother to reply because all you will get from me from now on is "fuck you"  and "eat your own shit".

ahahahaha...AHAHAHAHA...ahahahaha...

Thread

Gravity Force Has No Speed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 12:16 -0700
  Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-20 13:52 -0700
    Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 16:47 -0500
      Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 15:08 -0700
        Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-20 20:34 -0400
          Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 05:58 -0700
        Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-20 17:57 -0700
    Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-21 02:52 -0400
      Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 09:04 -0700
        Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 11:34 -0500
          Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 10:00 -0700
            Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 12:09 -0500
        Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-22 02:05 -0400
          Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 07:50 -0700
            Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 10:03 -0500
              Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 08:07 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 10:53 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 09:03 -0700
            Re: Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-23 04:52 -0400
              Re: Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-23 14:48 -0700
              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-08-08 15:43 -0400
    Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-21 02:56 -0400
      Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 09:19 -0700
        Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 11:37 -0500
          Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 10:01 -0700
            Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 12:11 -0500
              Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 11:33 -0700
        Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-22 01:55 -0400
          Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 09:01 -0700
            Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 09:15 -0700
              Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 09:37 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 12:18 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 10:50 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 13:42 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 11:44 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 13:52 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 11:57 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 14:14 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 14:32 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 13:00 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 17:02 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 15:30 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-23 10:49 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-23 09:31 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-23 11:39 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-23 16:53 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 15:13 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-24 14:19 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 07:58 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 13:08 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 15:56 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 14:14 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-22 17:01 -0400
            Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 12:15 -0500
              Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 10:48 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 13:36 -0500
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 11:37 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 13:51 -0500
            Re: Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-23 05:09 -0400
          Electric field (was: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-25 07:43 +0200
            Re: Electric field (was: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed) mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-24 23:12 -0700
              Re: Electric field Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 08:26 -0500
                Re: Electric field mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 13:08 -0700
              Re: Electric field Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-25 18:43 +0200
                Re: Electric field mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 12:16 -0700
                Re: Electric field Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-25 22:27 +0200
                Re: Electric field mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 18:02 -0700
                Re: Electric field Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-26 07:14 +0200
                Re: Electric field Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 15:51 -0500
  Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 09:36 -0700
  Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 17:59 -0700
    Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-23 17:37 -0400
  Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 10:44 -0700
    Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-08-10 12:57 -0700
      Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-08-10 16:38 -0700
      Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-08-11 04:30 -0400
        Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 15:03 +0200
          Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-08-12 05:48 -0400
            Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 14:01 +0200
              Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 09:16 -0700
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 12:40 +0200
                Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-14 12:30 -0700
  Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-10 23:11 +0200
    Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-10 15:47 -0700
      Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 15:28 +0200
        Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-14 12:23 -0700
          Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-15 08:27 -0500
      Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 09:17 -0500
    Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 12:53 -0700
      Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 11:23 +0200
        Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-14 12:24 -0700
          Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-15 08:28 -0500
            Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-15 11:38 -0700

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