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Groups > sci.physics > #590655
| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics |
| Subject | Electric field (was: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed) |
| Date | 2016-07-25 07:43 +0200 |
| Organization | PointedEars Software (PES) |
| Message-ID | <7951099.CDJkKcVGEf@PointedEars.de> (permalink) |
| References | <2c08a470-417d-41ab-9d63-f2bb74ba7b8e@googlegroups.com> <88f27f84-4d50-4952-8912-8c85536b0d1c@googlegroups.com> <qas0pb5cj0jvua8p2ca4gcip7dj0rg56vv@4ax.com> <4272c61e-d89b-4fb4-9f99-1c770604e4f1@googlegroups.com> <k4c3pbhgss9el7mhib6jblvdmh6otfl0sj@4ax.com> |
Michael J. Strickland wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 09:19:07 -0700 (PDT), mapou001@gmail.com wrote:
>>On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 11:56:13 PM UTC-7, Michael Strickland
>>wrote:
>>> Not many, if any, phenomenon propagate instantaneously since that
>>> usually requires infinite power.
>>
>> There is no propagation of the [electric field]. It is a nonlocal
>> phenomenon caused by nature correcting violations to some conservation
>> principle. The electrostatic field must remain symmetrical around its
>> source in order to obey Coulomb's inverse square law. The electrostatic
>> field around a charged particle are caused by photons emanating from it.
>> In order for the field to remain symmetrical, the photons must move in
>> unison with the particle regardless of how far apart they are. Again,
>> it's a nonlocal phenomenon.
>
> That field around the stationary charge "caused by photons" propagates
> at v = c (as do photons).
Nonsense. By *definition*, an electro*static*, or put more simply,
electric, field does _not_ propagate; it is just there, it is *static*.
What *does* propagate are *changes* in that field, and *they* propagate at
the same speed that light propagates in the medium that the electric field
is permeating (short: at the speed of light), which for all media other
than vacuum is *slower* than c, and *only for vacuum* is c.
See also:
<http://physics.stackexchange.com/a/1753/17333>
<https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/propagation-of-static-electric-field.708342/>
[The electromagnetic field also does _not_ propagate as such. An
electromagnetic _wave_ does, which is a dynamic excitation of that field, or
IOW “a self-propagating transverse oscillating wave of electric and magnetic
fields”, and photons are *elementary* excitations of *that* field. So
photons can be said to move at the same speed as an electromagnetic wave,
the _speed of light_ in the medium they are moving.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation>]
> Moving charges are constantly "broadcasting" because their "virtual
> photonic" flux is seen to change at different points in space around
> them as they move. With the wave theory, the static potential field
> radiated by the source charge acquires different vector values as the
> source charge moves due to its distance and position changes relative
> to any given point in space at which you may wish to measure it.
>
> E = (kq_s * q_t) / r^2 and F = Eq
>
> where:
> F = Force
> E = electric field (vector)
> k = Coulomb's constant
> q_s = source charge
> q_t = test charge
> r = distance vector
Nonsense. [If “r” is a “distance *vector*”, what is “r^2” so that E can be
a *vector* and you can *still* divide by “r^2”? What is “q” when you have
only defined q_s and q_t? And one usually does not use the equals sign to
define a quantity with words.]
Coulomb’s Law is, using your symbols (emphasis mine):
_F_ = k |q_s q_t| ∕ r^2
where _F_ is a *scalar*, the magnitude of the force between the particles
with electric charges q_s and q_t, respectively (henceforth: q_s and q_t),
and r is a *scalar*, the distance between them, or
_F⃗_s_ = k q_s q_t ^r_{ts}∕|r⃗_{st}|²
where _F⃗_s_ is a vector (notice the arrow), the force applied on q_s by
q_t, ^r_{ts} is a unit vector pointing from q_t to q_s, and r⃗_{st} is a
vector pointing from q_s to q_t. (For F⃗_t, one can do the calculation by
exchanging q_s and q_t and inverting vectors, or by applying Newton’s third
law: F⃗_t = −F⃗_s.)
Additionally, the magnitude of the electric field (again, a *scalar*)
created by a *single* *source* point charge q can be obtained from Coulomb’s
law as
|E⃗| = q∕(4 π ε₀ |r⃗|²) = k q∕|r⃗|²
where r⃗ is the vector (notice the arrow) pointing from the point charge to
the location in the field where one measures the magnitude of the field (or
vice versa), because k := 1∕(4 π ε₀). Or, with E := |E⃗| and r := |r⃗|,
E = q∕(4 π ε₀ r²) = k q∕ r²
(notice that “E” and “r” are *scalars* now – the arrows are gone –, and r is
the distance from the source point charge q).
Only (your) F = E q is correct if *both* F and E are either vectors or
magnitude scalars as
|E⃗| q = |q|²∕(4 π ε₀ r²) = k |q|²∕r² = |F⃗|
and
E⃗ q = |q|² ^r⃗∕(4 π ε₀ |r⃗|²) = k |q|² ^r⃗∕|r⃗|² = F⃗. ∎
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb%27s_law>
<http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/elefor.html#c1>
--
PointedEars
Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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Gravity Force Has No Speed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 12:16 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-20 13:52 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 16:47 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 15:08 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-20 20:34 -0400
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 05:58 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-20 17:57 -0700
Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-21 02:52 -0400
Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 09:04 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 11:34 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 10:00 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 12:09 -0500
Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-22 02:05 -0400
Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 07:50 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 10:03 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 08:07 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 10:53 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 09:03 -0700
Re: Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-23 04:52 -0400
Re: Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-23 14:48 -0700
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-08-08 15:43 -0400
Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-21 02:56 -0400
Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 09:19 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 11:37 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 10:01 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 12:11 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-21 11:33 -0700
Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-22 01:55 -0400
Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 09:01 -0700
Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 09:15 -0700
Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 09:37 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 12:18 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 10:50 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 13:42 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 11:44 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 13:52 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 11:57 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 14:14 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 14:32 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 13:00 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 17:02 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 15:30 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-23 10:49 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-23 09:31 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-23 11:39 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-23 16:53 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 15:13 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-24 14:19 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 07:58 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 13:08 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 15:56 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 14:14 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-22 17:01 -0400
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 12:15 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 10:48 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 13:36 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-22 11:37 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 13:51 -0500
Re: Re: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-07-23 05:09 -0400
Electric field (was: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-25 07:43 +0200
Re: Electric field (was: Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed) mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-24 23:12 -0700
Re: Electric field Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 08:26 -0500
Re: Electric field mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 13:08 -0700
Re: Electric field Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-25 18:43 +0200
Re: Electric field mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 12:16 -0700
Re: Electric field Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-25 22:27 +0200
Re: Electric field mapou001@gmail.com - 2016-07-25 18:02 -0700
Re: Electric field Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-26 07:14 +0200
Re: Electric field Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 15:51 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 09:36 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 17:59 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-23 17:37 -0400
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 10:44 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-08-10 12:57 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-08-10 16:38 -0700
Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-08-11 04:30 -0400
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 15:03 +0200
Re: Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-08-12 05:48 -0400
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 14:01 +0200
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 09:16 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 12:40 +0200
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-14 12:30 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-10 23:11 +0200
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-10 15:47 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 15:28 +0200
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-14 12:23 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-15 08:27 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 09:17 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 12:53 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed bartekltg <bartekltg@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 11:23 +0200
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-14 12:24 -0700
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-15 08:28 -0500
Re: Gravity Force Has No Speed LIGO Fraud Investigator <mapou001@gmail.com> - 2016-08-15 11:38 -0700
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