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Re: QM and GR.

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics
Subject Re: QM and GR.
Date 2016-07-27 07:11 +0200
Message-ID <dvqu3uFnhcjU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <nm0dtm$5sb$1@gioia.aioe.org> <dutv5vFo4jqU1@mid.individual.net> <GJ-dnRUU_7lCew_KnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <dvggauF6uhtU1@mid.individual.net> <-86dnSEA0ZbqNw7KnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Am 23.07.2016 19:33, schrieb Tom Roberts:

>> As far as we know, nature behaves unpredictable.
>
> NONSENSE! Mostly nature behaves very predictably. We have excellent
> models that have great predictive power over large domains of interest
> to us.
>
> However it is true that in the quantum domain there is
> considerable randomness. Usually for macroscopic objects
> this randomness averages away....


If an object behaves randomly only at the particle level, but is 'clean' 
on the macroscopic level, then randomness from the particles would 
average out.


This would only be the case, if the environment is also 'clean' and 
under tight control.

Such states are not that common in the real world, since common objects 
in common environments are subject to randomness of this environment.

Usually things age, get broken, rot, oxidise and so forth.

This is usually ascribed to age and second law of thermodynamics, but is 
actually the influence of the realm, we cannot control.

So you demand to predict such cases, where we have no randomness in the 
macroscopic realm, since in certain cases, we have only influences, we 
know about.

But usually we know not enough, since influences come usually from an 
area, which is invisible.

In a spacetime-view, the things visible are events on our past light 
cone. The things, that could eventually have an influence could stem 
from the the entire past semi-ball, which is past an event.

So in effect we can know only a few percent of what is actually there 
and more than 90% is invisible, but 'there'.

Future is actually like 'sum of all possible path' and all possible 
things add up to the next step in time for a certain system.

If we want to predict the outcome, we must know all possible inputs.

But we cannot know, since we have access only to a certain subset of 
possible influences.

So we could only enlarge the area of control far enough, that no 
unwanted disturbance occurs. Than we make the thing in question VERY 
clean and pure and then we could predict it.

>> E.g. we cannot predict the path, a certain fly would take.
>
> You confuse complexity with unpredictability. A fly is FAR too complex
> for our models of nature to be applied. But there are lots of situations
> for which we can accurately predict how an individual atom will behave....

As a matter of fact, our current models would not allow flies to fly at 
all.


TH

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Thread

QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-09 08:20 -0700
  Re: QM and GR. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-07-09 18:02 +0200
    Re: QM and GR. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-09 16:51 -0700
      Re: QM and GR. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-09 17:55 -0700
  Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-10 07:16 +0200
    Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-11 06:04 +0200
  Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 08:25 -0500
  Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-10 10:28 -0500
    Re: QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-11 08:00 -0700
      Re: QM and GR. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 17:08 +0200
        Re: QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-11 08:12 -0700
      Re: QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-11 08:08 -0700
        Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 13:42 -0500
          Re: QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-11 12:07 -0700
            Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 14:15 -0500
              Re: QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-11 12:29 -0700
          Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-14 22:48 +0200
            Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-14 16:30 -0500
              Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-15 07:03 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 07:37 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-15 22:56 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 13:02 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-16 22:17 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:47 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-18 07:09 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-17 10:17 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-18 06:56 +0200
    Re: QM and GR. Jack Chardy <jackc@outlool.org> - 2016-07-11 15:27 +0000
      Re: QM and GR. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-16 15:31 +1000
        Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-16 12:15 -0700
          Re: QM and GR. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-18 15:01 +1000
        Re: QM and GR. Greg Buttler <grgb@novotnysite.org> - 2016-07-22 16:09 +0000
          Re: QM and GR. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-25 12:21 +1000
            Re: QM and GR. Tsvetana Kasatkina <tzve@noemail.info> - 2016-07-29 20:23 +0000
        Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-22 22:39 -0500
          Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-23 08:14 +0200
            Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-23 10:43 -0500
            Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-23 12:33 -0500
              Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-23 22:41 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-24 07:12 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-26 09:21 +0200
              Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-27 07:11 +0200
          Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-23 11:21 -0700
            Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-24 22:39 -0500
              Re: QM and GR. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-07-25 09:12 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 07:02 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-07-25 16:23 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 12:44 -0700
              Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-25 10:22 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-27 12:15 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-29 13:51 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 16:04 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 11:32 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:19 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 12:35 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:56 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 13:37 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 16:09 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 15:03 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 17:11 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 16:05 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 08:17 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-01 12:30 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 15:11 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-01 13:36 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 17:02 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-30 08:27 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 12:25 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 13:47 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-01 14:17 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 17:04 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-01 18:01 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 19:57 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:04 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 12:37 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-05 08:37 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 12:40 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-06 14:47 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 13:16 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-08 13:25 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 14:16 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-10 10:52 -0700
          Re: QM and GR. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-25 16:45 +1000
            Re: QM and GR. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-25 16:46 +1000
            Re: QM and GR. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 11:08 +0200
            Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-25 12:28 -0500
              Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-25 10:51 -0700
              Re: QM and GR. wugi <brol@brol.be> - 2016-07-26 12:11 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-27 12:11 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-29 10:20 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 07:13 -0500
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. Adlbifhr Mjduhgfks <am@random.us> - 2016-08-07 15:36 +0000
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-07 11:16 -0700
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 13:21 -0700
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-08 13:36 -0700
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-08-07 12:31 -0500
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-08 06:57 -0500
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-08-08 07:18 +0200
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-08 10:10 -0700
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-08 11:02 -0700
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-08 13:14 -0500
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-08-08 22:52 +0200
                Re: Nature decides _everything_. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-08-09 08:42 +0200
                Re: Nature decides _everything_. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-09 07:16 -0700
                Re: Nature decides _everything_. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-09 07:49 -0700
                Re: Nature programmed you to choose one over the other. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-09 12:09 -0700
                Re: Nature programmed you to choose one over the other. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-09 13:35 -0700
                Re: Nature programmed you to choose one over the other. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-08-09 23:53 +0200
                Re: Nature programmed you to choose one over the other. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-09 18:17 -0400
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-09 06:51 -0500
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-09 17:51 -0400
              Re: QM and GR. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-08-02 06:41 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 23:55 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-08-03 05:27 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 07:39 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-08-05 05:25 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 08:07 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-08-06 07:51 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 15:57 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-08-06 14:49 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 17:30 -0500
  Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-15 17:06 -0700

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