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Re: QM and GR.

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics
Subject Re: QM and GR.
Date 2016-07-16 15:31 +1000
Message-ID <dutv5vFo4jqU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References <e774f48f-83e5-4a00-bb28-5fe21626b4b3@googlegroups.com> <dvednQ_V3vIC9B_KnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <nm0dtm$5sb$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 12/07/2016 1:27 AM, Jack Chardy wrote:
> Tom Roberts wrote:
>
>> On 7/9/16 7/9/16   10:20 AM, Y wrote:
>>> I really don't see the point in these theories being combined into one.
>>> Can anyone explain very simply the point of doing so ?
>>
>> Sure: the world works (i.e. in every regime that occurs in the world, at
>> every scale, nature behaves in some manner).
>>
>> At present we don't have a theory that describes how nature works at
>> every scale -- QM describes how nature works at small scales, and GR
>> describes how nature works at large scales, but in between they are
>> incompatible. As nature works at these intermediate scales, there must
>> be some theory that describes it; presumably it is some sort of
>> "combination" of QM and GR, but that is just a guess, as it could be
>> something else altogether (and the current major research efforts are
>> indeed something else: string theory and loop quantum gravity).
>
> Now substitute your "describe" with "guesses that" or "approaches and
> approximate", then try answering the question. That there are no needs or
> requirements in Nature to combine anything.
>
> And btw, Relativity is not describing the large scales in any way. I needs
> an additional of 96% which is not there, where Relativity says that should
> be. Nice try. Now try with real physics taking place in real Nature.
>

You can ask the question "What will the result be if I measure X?".

There cannot be two different correct theories, because if they're 
different, they'll sometimes give different answers, and at least one 
would have to be wrong.

So either there is no theory possible, or it must be possible to create 
a single theory.

That single theory has to reduce to GR[*] on the large scale with modest 
gravitational fields, to QM on the small scale with gravitational fields 
ignored, and to something else in situations where the scale is small, 
but the gravitational fields are large and varying on that scale. To my 
mind, whether not that theory is to be regarded as a combination of GR 
and QM is a value judgement, and to some extent dependent on how it was 
reached.

Sylvia.

[*] Just as GR reduces to special relativity in the absence of gravity, 
and special relativity reduces to Newtonian mechanics in the absence of 
high relative velocities.




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Thread

QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-09 08:20 -0700
  Re: QM and GR. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-07-09 18:02 +0200
    Re: QM and GR. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-09 16:51 -0700
      Re: QM and GR. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-09 17:55 -0700
  Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-10 07:16 +0200
    Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-11 06:04 +0200
  Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 08:25 -0500
  Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-10 10:28 -0500
    Re: QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-11 08:00 -0700
      Re: QM and GR. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 17:08 +0200
        Re: QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-11 08:12 -0700
      Re: QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-11 08:08 -0700
        Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 13:42 -0500
          Re: QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-11 12:07 -0700
            Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 14:15 -0500
              Re: QM and GR. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-11 12:29 -0700
          Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-14 22:48 +0200
            Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-14 16:30 -0500
              Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-15 07:03 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 07:37 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-15 22:56 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 13:02 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-16 22:17 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:47 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-18 07:09 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-17 10:17 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-18 06:56 +0200
    Re: QM and GR. Jack Chardy <jackc@outlool.org> - 2016-07-11 15:27 +0000
      Re: QM and GR. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-16 15:31 +1000
        Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-16 12:15 -0700
          Re: QM and GR. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-18 15:01 +1000
        Re: QM and GR. Greg Buttler <grgb@novotnysite.org> - 2016-07-22 16:09 +0000
          Re: QM and GR. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-25 12:21 +1000
            Re: QM and GR. Tsvetana Kasatkina <tzve@noemail.info> - 2016-07-29 20:23 +0000
        Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-22 22:39 -0500
          Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-23 08:14 +0200
            Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-23 10:43 -0500
            Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-23 12:33 -0500
              Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-23 22:41 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-24 07:12 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-26 09:21 +0200
              Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-27 07:11 +0200
          Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-23 11:21 -0700
            Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-24 22:39 -0500
              Re: QM and GR. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-07-25 09:12 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 07:02 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-07-25 16:23 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 12:44 -0700
              Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-25 10:22 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-27 12:15 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-29 13:51 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 16:04 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 11:32 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:19 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 12:35 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:56 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 13:37 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 16:09 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 15:03 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 17:11 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 16:05 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 08:17 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-01 12:30 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 15:11 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-01 13:36 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 17:02 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-30 08:27 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-31 12:25 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 13:47 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-01 14:17 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 17:04 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-01 18:01 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-01 19:57 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 07:04 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 12:37 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-05 08:37 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 12:40 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-06 14:47 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 13:16 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-08 13:25 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 14:16 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-10 10:52 -0700
          Re: QM and GR. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-25 16:45 +1000
            Re: QM and GR. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-25 16:46 +1000
            Re: QM and GR. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 11:08 +0200
            Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-25 12:28 -0500
              Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-25 10:51 -0700
              Re: QM and GR. wugi <brol@brol.be> - 2016-07-26 12:11 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-27 12:11 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-07-29 10:20 +0200
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 07:13 -0500
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. Adlbifhr Mjduhgfks <am@random.us> - 2016-08-07 15:36 +0000
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-07 11:16 -0700
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 13:21 -0700
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-08-08 13:36 -0700
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-08-07 12:31 -0500
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-08 06:57 -0500
                Re: The rate at which the time axis grows, relative to the spatial dimensions. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-08-08 07:18 +0200
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-08 10:10 -0700
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-08 11:02 -0700
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-08 13:14 -0500
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-08-08 22:52 +0200
                Re: Nature decides _everything_. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-08-09 08:42 +0200
                Re: Nature decides _everything_. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-09 07:16 -0700
                Re: Nature decides _everything_. "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-09 07:49 -0700
                Re: Nature programmed you to choose one over the other. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-09 12:09 -0700
                Re: Nature programmed you to choose one over the other. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-08-09 13:35 -0700
                Re: Nature programmed you to choose one over the other. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-08-09 23:53 +0200
                Re: Nature programmed you to choose one over the other. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-09 18:17 -0400
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-09 06:51 -0500
                Re: _Nothing_ can change the future, present or past. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-09 17:51 -0400
              Re: QM and GR. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-08-02 06:41 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-02 23:55 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-08-03 05:27 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-03 07:39 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-08-05 05:25 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-05 08:07 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-08-06 07:51 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 15:57 -0500
                Re: QM and GR. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-08-06 14:49 -0700
                Re: QM and GR. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 17:30 -0500
  Re: QM and GR. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-15 17:06 -0700

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