Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #386771

Re: Classical entanglement.

From	Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Classical entanglement.
Date	2016-06-28 11:46 +1000
Message-ID	<dte37tFo8jeU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<2c2144be-f6d2-484c-8fbc-b8aaa37bc56f@googlegroups.com> <dtcis0Fej60U1@mid.individual.net> <8f947d29-9fc0-4cc2-9a8c-6886af046302@googlegroups.com> <dtckg9Fev1uU2@mid.individual.net> <5148234d-d71f-4279-b2bc-87f1bdfdb13b@googlegroups.com>

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On 27/06/2016 10:40 PM, Y wrote:
> On Monday, June 27, 2016 at 10:28:59 PM UTC+10, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 27/06/2016 10:13 PM, Y wrote:
>>> On Monday, June 27, 2016 at 10:01:06 PM UTC+10, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 27/06/2016 9:52 PM, Y wrote:
>>>>> Just gave some thought to a thought experiment, which may be
>>>>> performed using classical systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Supposing we take fire two projectiles so that they interact and
>>>>> collide at some point, (an opening in a lead plate) before
>>>>> rebounding in opposite directions.
>>>>>
>>>>> We locate detectors to observe the spins of these projectiles
>>>>> after the collision.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could it be determined that their "spins" are correlated even
>>>>> though they are now separated by lead plate ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would imagine that yes, they could be correlated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any thoughts ?
>>>>>
>>>>> -y
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Certainly, they'll be correlated. The measurements of their spins
>>>> will be found to be described by a local model ("hidden"
>>>> variable).
>>>>
>>>> It's entirely uninteresting.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> Woah.. hang up a sec. Our detectors are measuring spin and can not
>>> communicate through the lead plate, nor do they observe the local
>>> interaction that takes place. Ok, I'll draw a diagram of the setup
>>> for you.
>>>
>>> -y
>>>
>>
>> A hidden variable model does not require communication between the
>> detectors.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
>
> Well, its quite feasible classically, to ensure that Alice and Bob are not aware of any interaction happening at the rebound point. So the detectors do not communicate classically here either (rather they send their results to a 3rd location where the results are correlated).
>
> https://s32.postimg.org/5ax4kw3ud/classical_entanglement.png
>
>
>
> -y

In this classical situation we can model the behaviour on the basis that 
what Alice detects depends only on what Alice decides to measure, and 
that what Bob detects depends only on what Bob decides to measure. That 
is, the model is local.

When we try this with particles, such a model doesn't work, and we need 
a non-local model in which what Alice and Bob each detect depends on 
what both Alice and Bob decide to measure.

This is predicted by the theory, and is born out in experiments.

Sylvia.

Thread

Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-27 04:52 -0700
  Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-27 22:01 +1000
    Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-27 05:02 -0700
      Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-27 22:17 +1000
        Re: Classical entanglement. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-06-27 06:25 -0700
    Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-27 05:13 -0700
      Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-27 22:28 +1000
        Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-27 05:40 -0700
          Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-28 11:46 +1000
            Re: Classical entanglement. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-06-28 09:08 +0200
              Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-28 19:48 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-28 02:59 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-28 20:23 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-28 04:00 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-28 21:46 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-28 05:42 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-29 11:58 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-28 21:11 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-29 14:24 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-29 04:24 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-29 22:03 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-29 06:15 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-30 11:28 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-29 19:13 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-30 12:34 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-29 20:02 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-30 14:12 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-29 21:38 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-30 14:49 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 08:11 -0500
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-30 11:57 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-01 12:34 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 07:42 -0500
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-01 07:55 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 10:15 -0500
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-01 08:43 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-01 09:09 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 13:29 -0500
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-01 17:56 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-02 08:35 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 11:08 -0500
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-04 10:07 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 12:57 -0500
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-02 12:55 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-02 00:06 -0500
                Re: Classical entanglement. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-29 20:00 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-06-28 12:52 +0200
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-28 21:47 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-06-28 15:19 +0200
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-29 11:59 +1000
                Re: Classical entanglement. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-06-29 06:15 -0700
                Re: Classical entanglement. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-30 11:48 +1000
  Re: Classical entanglement. astrofoton@interia.pl - 2016-07-02 12:06 -0700

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