Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #161251

Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break

From	"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break
Date	2016-03-21 04:51 +1100
Message-ID	<dl869vFocjuU2@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<PM00052E54A86D1850@users-ibook-g4-6.unknown.dom> <PM00052E54A86D1850@users-ibook-g4-6.unknown.dom> <PM00052E54A86D1850@users-ibook-g4-6.unknown.dom> <dl5olkF5jcnU1@mid.individual.net> <PM00052E7B5D9EC43F@aca40d30.ipt.aol.com>

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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote

>>> Subject says it all.  There is a caveat:  Since all debugging steps
>>> are dependent on the feedback of the last n steps, I cannot be
>>> precise and I will try to document the assumption I make based
>>> on a fictional feedback with each debugging steps.

>>> The first step is to find out how and where ADVENT keeps track
>>> of points.  There are many, many ways to do this.  Note that the
>>> maximum number of points is 256 which suggests 256 bits are assigned
>>> to keep track of which point in the game action has been achieved.

>>> First,

>>> SET WATCH FILES VERSION
>>> R ADVENT

>>> The versions are interesting and may help.  The FILES will
>>> tell me how ADVENT writes its data to keep track of points.

>>> If ADVENT writes into a data file, then I'd do a FILCOM
>>> of a new data file without any points with a file which
>>> has all the points sans the 256th one.  that will give me
>>> the address of the words where the bits are set.  Then
>>> it's easy to set a breakpoint using the SET BREAK
>>> command with a mask whenever that bit is referenced.

>>> So a MIC file should be created to play the entire game and
>>> a break will occur whenever that bit is referenced.  thus, one
>>> would find the room and items required to get the last point.

>>> If the data is kept in the EXE (this is a snarly method
>>> of programming but people do it), then that implies
>>> that the EXE has to be writtable.

>> And this method won't work if they don’t.

And that game doesn’t. So this bit of yours is a complete
irrelevancy to what is being discussed, whether SET BREAK
can be used to determine the end point in that particular
game. It can't.

>>> I would then play the game until the first point is about
>>> to be achieved.  Exit the game.  Write-lock the EXE file.
>>> Then either RUN or CONT the game, depending on how
>>> the write-lock was done.  Now try to get the point.  An
>>> error message from the monitor (can't recall the precise
>>> format) will complain giving data about the locations
>>> which couldn't be written.

>>> Another possible method of determining where the
>>> points are written is to FILCOM a virgin ADVENT.EXE
>>> with a completed, sans one point, ADVENT.EXE.

>>> These last two methods may take some examining
>>> of the EXE files.  You can do that by running FILDDT
>>> and looking at the addresses which are interesting.

>> So you don’t in fact find the last point using SET BREAK, as we said.

> From a previous post of mine and the text above, you have the address,
> the mask and can break when any of those bits are referenced.

Yes, but that only helps if the player actually gets that point.
If the player gets that point, you don’t need SET BREAK on
where the points are stored to see how to get that point
and in fact it's useless to see how to get that point.

>>> There are many other ways to debug the program.  You can
>>> put in a patch  with FILDDT which will do stuff depending on
>>> the code.  One does not need DDT loaded with the EXE to do
>>> any of the debugging.  I probably would not want DDT in my
>>> address space because it's extra code to ignore and it does
>>> strange things with one's adddress space.

>>> If you did think you needed DDT, then you would have to go
>>> to a TOPS-20 system,  and type:

>>> GET ADVENT
>>> DDT
>>> ^C
>>> SAVE ADVENT

>>> Then you can look using DDT commands but there won't be
>>> symbols with this program.  After playing around on the -20,
>>> you can go to a TOPS-10 system, verify that the addresses
>>> you are interested in are the same or determine the offset
>>> from the -20 core copy.  Then you can set the appropriate
>>> address break and run the MIC game playing file to determine
>>> the objects and rooms you need for the 256th point.

All irrelevant to whether SET BREAK alone
can be used to find the last point.

>>> Now, these techniques are just from the top of my head.

>> Pity that you STILL haven't shown how SET BREAK
>> can be used to work out the last point.

> You haven't understood what I wrote.

Usual hoary old line from you when you can't actually
substantiate the claim you made which is just plain wrong.

>>> There are a lot more, including watching the game
>>> being played from the POV of the monitor, but this is
>>> considered "cheating" ;-).  (I guess noone here would
>>> understand the cheating reference but JMF and TW would.)

>> That last is even sillier than you usually manage.

> So you don't want to learn.

Nothing to learn there. I knew all that stuff
LONG before you ever said anything.

> that's fine with me.

Thread

Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-19 13:23 +0000
  Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 06:46 +1100
    Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-20 13:56 +0000
      Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 04:51 +1100
        Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-21 12:24 +0000
          Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-21 13:53 +0100
            Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 04:23 +1100
              Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 05:01 +1100
            Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Rob Doyle <radioengr@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 01:50 -0700
              Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-22 13:22 +0100
              Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
            Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
              Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-26 07:32 +0000
          Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 04:24 +1100
          Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-22 10:20 -0500
            Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-23 13:23 +0000
  Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-21 13:58 +0000
  Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-21 14:00 +0000
    Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
      Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-22 10:24 -0500
  Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-22 07:19 +0000
  Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-22 07:19 +0000
    Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-22 13:20 +0100
    Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
      Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 04:55 +1100
      Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-26 07:32 +0000
        Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-26 09:55 +0100
          Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-26 13:24 +0000
            Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 04:11 +1100
              Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-27 13:26 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 04:25 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-28 15:58 -0500
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-29 13:55 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:17 +0200
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 16:17 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-29 17:57 +0100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:14 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:17 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 17:48 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-29 21:35 +0100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-29 23:20 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-03-30 05:33 +0100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-30 17:23 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-29 19:28 +0100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-31 11:10 -0500
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-31 19:20 +0100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-30 16:32 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-30 16:55 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 04:09 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-31 06:22 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-31 11:13 -0500
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-31 21:00 -0500
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 03:49 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-30 05:29 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-31 03:41 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-31 12:41 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-01 05:03 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-04-15 08:34 +0000

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