Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi.

From	jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi.
Date	2015-09-22 22:33 +0000
Organization	Freie Universitaet Berlin
Message-ID	<d6e3a7FtdpkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <id210btlsqe47v45golbv08mkesillqbnc@4ax.com> <56008F7B.3030501@verizon.net> <bd1b9cab-9d05-4fac-8068-63f5079609d4@googlegroups.com> <d6dka0Fora6U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <d824189a-c5b8-4e09-80f4-80d8105dfdbe@googlegroups.com>

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supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 1:18:07 PM UTC-5, Jens Thoms Toerring wrote:
> > What would it actually be good for? When actually do you need to
> > right-shift signed integers? I've seen that done in two catego-
> > ries of code: one was very low level, platform dependent stuff,
> > where someone knew the behaviour of the underlying CPU and what
> > the compiler does very well (and thus had no trouble understanding
> > what the risks might be) and, on the other hand, in code by "cow-
> > boy" programmers that have some vague notion that bit-fiddling and
> > right-shifting would be faster than a division by a power of two,
> > and typically have no good idea what they are doing.

> Given a specification to write a formula to divide by 16 an integer x
> which is nowhere near INT_MAX, rounding to the nearest integer, but with
> exact half-way points rounded arbitrarily, can you suggest anything which
> is is clean, simple, and efficient as "(x+8)>>4"?  Note that not only
> will "(x+8)/16" be far less efficient, but it will also fail badly if
> x is negative.

Why should it be less efficient?

?  In Python, the expression could be written as "(x+8)//16"
> since the "//" is a floored-integer-division operator rather than a
> comment delimiter, but C just has the far-less-useful truncating division
> operator.

As far as I can see the Python3 '//' operator is just the C
integer division as in C (and behaves as the '/' operator in
Python2 when applied to integers).

> What would you suggest as a concise, efficient, readable, and portable way
> of performing a rounded division by 16 for all values that are no greater
> than INT_MAX-8?

Just do "(x+8)/16". If x is signed and the CPU can do
arithmetic right shifts I'd bet what the compiler will
produce is exactly the same as "(x+8)>>4" if an arith-
metic right-shif already is used for signed integers.
And if the CPU can't do arithmetic right-shifts natively
it will do just what you propose to add for right-shif-
ting of signed integers.

What I object to is giving the shift operators an arithmetic
meaning. They're for shifting sets of bits, not doing higher-
level calculations. They have such a meaning for certain types
due to the way these values are typically represented. But what
you seem to propose is to force this (more or less accidental)
meaning back onto the shift operations. When that's done, why
not also have the shift operator apply to floats, making them
just a true shortcut for multiplication or division by powers
of 2?

For unsigned integers the standard clearly requires a logical
right shift. Many implementations seem to do arithmetic
right shifts for signed integers. It would indeed be nice
if there would be a way to request an arithmetic right shift.
But rquiring such a binding to the signed-ness of an integer
type is IMHO a bit dubious, especially given that it intro-
duces backward compatibility issues for programs that were
written under the knowledge that this is implementation de-
fined and rely on what the implementation defines. Then
better lets have something new, i.e. a new operator that
stands for an arithmetic right shift (and which also can be
applied to other types).
                            Regards, Jens
-- 
  \   Jens Thoms Toerring  ___      jt@toerring.de
   \__________________________      http://toerring.de

Thread

How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 20:17 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 20:43 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-21 19:51 +0100
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 23:26 +0200
      Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-21 22:47 +0100
        Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 16:29 +0200
          Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-22 16:11 +0100
            Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-23 11:18 +0200
              Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-23 13:01 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 20:53 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 20:54 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 20:58 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2015-09-21 18:15 -0400
      Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-21 15:21 -0700
      Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-21 17:51 -0500
        Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-21 19:15 -0400
          Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-21 23:59 -0500
          Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-22 09:22 -0700
            Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-22 10:32 -0700
            Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-09-22 18:17 +0000
              Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-22 12:25 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-09-22 22:33 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-22 15:52 -0700
            Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-09-22 23:09 +0000
              Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-23 09:07 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-09-23 16:55 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-23 10:46 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-09-23 23:18 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-23 22:29 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-24 11:09 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-27 18:23 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-28 05:20 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-27 23:23 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-28 09:03 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-28 01:24 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-28 09:32 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-09-28 10:22 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-28 11:35 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-28 10:33 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-28 18:59 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-28 20:09 +0200
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 13:39 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-28 20:04 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 16:43 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 18:55 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 19:31 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-28 12:16 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-28 14:31 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 16:47 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-29 11:54 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-01 00:36 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-10-02 10:53 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-02 09:48 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-03 11:27 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-03 12:32 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-03 11:26 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-04 16:46 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-28 14:23 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 16:52 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-30 01:39 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-30 12:37 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-30 21:28 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-30 17:54 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-01 03:59 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-01 01:42 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-30 16:20 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-04 16:39 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-28 23:23 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-29 09:35 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-10-02 11:06 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-02 09:23 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-02 12:07 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-02 10:47 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-02 17:48 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-03 16:46 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-05 10:41 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-28 15:31 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 16:40 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-28 18:17 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-30 02:49 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-30 06:27 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-29 10:43 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-28 22:51 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-30 02:11 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-28 22:48 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-28 22:03 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-30 01:13 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-09-30 17:06 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-30 17:26 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-30 13:04 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-28 09:12 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-28 12:28 +0200
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-28 20:44 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-01 01:39 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-01 08:55 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-01 09:02 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-01 14:55 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-01 16:48 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-10-02 11:46 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-06 00:15 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-10-06 02:43 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-06 10:13 +0200
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-10-06 19:14 -0500
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-06 21:36 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-06 09:25 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-06 09:28 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-06 13:11 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-06 13:56 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-07 00:25 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-06 09:44 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-06 10:08 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-06 12:00 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-07 01:58 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-10-07 10:12 +0100
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-08 00:40 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-10-03 12:29 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-03 13:20 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-10-03 12:33 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-03 17:02 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-03 15:04 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-04 05:12 +0000
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-04 12:58 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-10-03 12:37 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-03 16:21 -0400
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-03 16:05 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-03 14:02 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-09-24 09:39 -0700
                Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-09-27 16:26 +0000
        Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2015-09-21 22:06 -0400
          Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-09-22 10:17 -0400
            Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2015-09-22 19:48 -0400
              Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2015-09-23 13:15 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 21:25 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 21:54 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 22:02 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-21 21:50 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2015-09-21 18:08 -0400
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 08:31 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 10:18 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 10:50 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 11:00 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 11:07 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 11:20 +0200
  Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 11:15 +0200
    Re: How to write this sign function in Delphi. "Skybuck Flying" <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> - 2015-09-22 11:23 +0200

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