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| Subject | Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| References | <2pSdnR25lqHLZub_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <20220511201154.00002147@reddwarf.jmc> <lYydndd8nf4JzuH_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| From | Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> |
| Message-ID | <b0ZeK.1833$6y5f.1474@fx40.iad> (permalink) |
| Organization | Forte - www.forteinc.com |
| Date | 2022-05-11 21:02 -0400 |
On 5/11/22 8:23 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/11/2022 2:11 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 May 2022 13:07:16 -0500
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs
>>> ]
>>>
>>> The x86utm operating system was created so that every detail of the
>>> conventional halting problem counter example could be fully specified
>>> in C/x86.
>>>
>>> In computability theory, the halting problem is the
>>> problem of determining, from a description of an
>>> arbitrary computer program and an input, whether the
>>> program will finish running, or continue to run forever...
>>>
>>> For any program f that might determine if programs halt,
>>> a "pathological" program g, called with some input, can
>>> pass its own source and its input to f and then specifically
>>> do the opposite of what f predicts g will do. No f can exist
>>> that handles this case.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
>>>
>>> This exact same relationship of f(g,g) was created as H(P,P), shown
>>> below.
>>>
>>> This is the overview of the method for proving that this analysis is
>>> correct:
>>> (a) Verify that the execution trace of P by H is correct by comparing
>>> this execution trace to the ax86 source-code of P.
>>>
>>> (b) Verify that this execution trace shows that P is stuck in
>>> infinitely nested simulation (a non-halting behavior).
>>>
>>> This proof can only be understood only by those having sufficient
>>> technical competence in:
>>> (a) software engineering (recognizing infinite recursion in C and x86
>>> code) (b) the x86 programming language
>>> (c) the C programming language and
>>> (d) the details of how C is translated into x86 by the Microsoft C
>>> compilers.
>>>
>>> #include <stdint.h>
>>> #define u32 uint32_t
>>>
>>> void P(u32 x)
>>> {
>>> if (H(x, x))
>>> HERE: goto HERE;
>>> return;
>>> }
>>>
>>> int main()
>>> {
>>> Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)P, (u32)P));
>>> }
>>>
>>> _P()
>>> [00001352](01) 55 push ebp
>>> [00001353](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>> [00001355](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> [00001358](01) 50 push eax
>>> [00001359](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>> [0000135c](01) 51 push ecx
>>> [0000135d](05) e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
>>> [00001362](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
>>> [00001365](02) 85c0 test eax,eax
>>> [00001367](02) 7402 jz 0000136b
>>> [00001369](02) ebfe jmp 00001369
>>> [0000136b](01) 5d pop ebp
>>> [0000136c](01) c3 ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0027) [0000136c]
>>>
>>> _main()
>>> [00001372](01) 55 push ebp
>>> [00001373](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>> [00001375](05) 6852130000 push 00001352 // push P
>>> [0000137a](05) 6852130000 push 00001352 // push P
>>> [0000137f](05) e81efeffff call 000011a2 // call H
>>> [00001384](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
>>> [00001387](01) 50 push eax
>>> [00001388](05) 6823040000 push 00000423 // "Input_Halts = "
>>> [0000138d](05) e8e0f0ffff call 00000472 // call Output
>>> [00001392](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
>>> [00001395](02) 33c0 xor eax,eax
>>> [00001397](01) 5d pop ebp
>>> [00001398](01) c3 ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0039) [00001398]
>>>
>>> machine stack stack machine assembly
>>> address address data code language
>>> ======== ======== ======== ========= =============
>>> ...[00001372][0010229e][00000000] 55 push ebp
>>> ...[00001373][0010229e][00000000] 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>> ...[00001375][0010229a][00001352] 6852130000 push 00001352 // push P
>>> ...[0000137a][00102296][00001352] 6852130000 push 00001352 // push P
>>> ...[0000137f][00102292][00001384] e81efeffff call 000011a2 // call H
>>>
>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:212352
>>> ...[00001352][0021233e][00212342] 55 push ebp // enter P
>>> ...[00001353][0021233e][00212342] 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>> ...[00001355][0021233e][00212342] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> ...[00001358][0021233a][00001352] 50 push eax // push P
>>> ...[00001359][0021233a][00001352] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>> ...[0000135c][00212336][00001352] 51 push ecx // push P
>>> ...[0000135d][00212332][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
>>> ...[00001352][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 55 push ebp // enter P
>>> ...[00001353][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8bec mov ebp,esp
>>> ...[00001355][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> ...[00001358][0025cd62][00001352] 50 push eax // push P
>>> ...[00001359][0025cd62][00001352] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>> ...[0000135c][0025cd5e][00001352] 51 push ecx // push P
>>> ...[0000135d][0025cd5a][00001362] e840feffff call 000011a2 // call H
>>> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>>>
>>> H sees that P is calling the same function from the same machine
>>> address with identical parameters, twice in sequence. This is the
>>> infinite recursion (infinitely nested simulation) non-halting
>>> behavior pattern.
>>>
>>> ...[00001384][0010229e][00000000] 83c408 add esp,+08
>>> ...[00001387][0010229a][00000000] 50 push eax
>>> ...[00001388][00102296][00000423] 6823040000 push 00000423 //
>>> "Input_Halts ="
>>> ---[0000138d][00102296][00000423] e8e0f0ffff call 00000472 // call
>>> Output Input_Halts = 0
>>> ...[00001392][0010229e][00000000] 83c408 add esp,+08
>>> ...[00001395][0010229e][00000000] 33c0 xor eax,eax
>>> ...[00001397][001022a2][00100000] 5d pop ebp
>>> ...[00001398][001022a6][00000004] c3 ret
>>> Number of Instructions Executed(15892) lines = 237 pages
>>>
>>>
>>> Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation (V5)
>>>
>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359984584_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation_V5
>>>
>>
>> Your simulation approach is erroneous as there is no infinite
>> recursion; the key to understanding this is by realizing the
>> implication of the words "pass its own source" in the following:
>
>
> YOU IGNORED THIS PART
>
> This proof can only be understood only by those having sufficient
> technical competence in:
> (a) software engineering - recognizing infinite recursion in C/x86
> (b) the x86 programming language
> (c) the C programming language and
> (d) the details of how C is translated into x86 by the Microsoft C
> compilers.
And those that are see it to be the lie that it is.
I really don't think YOU understand the material to the level you claim
is needed.
>
>> For any program f that might determine if programs halt,
>> a "pathological" program g, called with some input, can
>> pass its own source and its input to f and then specifically
>> do the opposite of what f predicts g will do. No f can exist
>> that handles this case.
>>
>> "pass its own source" is NOT the same as compiling and running its own
>> source as part of a simulation.
>
> Passing the finite string of its own machine code is equivalent to
> passing its own source.
Only key is that you confuse the PROGRAM P with the SUBROUTINE P.
The finite string is NOT a definition of the actual compuation being
asked about, so you fail at step one.
>
>>
>> /Flibble
>>
>
>
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Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 13:07 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-11 20:11 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 19:23 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 21:02 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:31 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:43 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:43 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:45 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:47 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:51 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 19:00 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 13:06 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 19:13 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 21:12 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 15:18 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 23:58 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:28 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 01:40 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 20:32 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:48 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 13:38 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 20:56 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 19:09 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:50 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:46 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:45 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 19:41 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 01:17 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 19:29 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 20:52 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 02:10 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 21:29 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 23:02 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 23:54 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:21 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-13 00:24 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:42 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 01:35 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 20:25 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:41 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 12:05 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 12:01 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 20:06 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 14:24 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 16:11 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 15:22 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 13:26 -0700
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 15:38 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-13 21:44 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 13:27 -0700
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 17:22 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 16:48 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 18:04 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 17:06 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:07 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:09 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:20 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:26 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:04 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:20 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:41 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-13 19:03 -0600
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 21:21 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 22:37 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 23:46 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 17:57 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:09 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:18 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:09 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:03 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:11 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:18 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:22 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:28 +0100
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 11:45 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-14 04:28 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 15:55 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-14 08:53 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-15 12:05 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-13 16:11 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 11:15 -0500
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 11:26 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:03 -0400
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-13 16:02 +0300
Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 12:21 -0700
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