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Groups > comp.theory > #50284

Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2)

From Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2)
Message-ID <20220512184323.000078f7@reddwarf.jmc> (permalink)
References <2pSdnR25lqHLZub_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <20220511201154.00002147@reddwarf.jmc> <lYydndd8nf4JzuH_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
Organization Jupiter Mining Corp
Date 2022-05-12 18:43 +0100

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On Wed, 11 May 2022 19:23:45 -0500
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:

> On 5/11/2022 2:11 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > On Wed, 11 May 2022 13:07:16 -0500
> > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >   
> >> Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem
> >> proofs ]
> >>
> >> The x86utm operating system was created so that every detail of the
> >> conventional halting problem counter example could be fully
> >> specified in C/x86.
> >>
> >>      In computability theory, the halting problem is the
> >>      problem of determining, from a description of an
> >>      arbitrary computer program and an input, whether the
> >>      program will finish running, or continue to run forever...
> >>
> >>      For any program f that might determine if programs halt,
> >>      a "pathological" program g, called with some input, can
> >>      pass its own source and its input to f and then specifically
> >>      do the opposite of what f predicts g will do. No f can exist
> >>      that handles this case.
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
> >>
> >> This exact same relationship of f(g,g) was created as H(P,P), shown
> >> below.
> >>
> >> This is the overview of the method for proving that this analysis
> >> is correct:
> >> (a) Verify that the execution trace of P by H is correct by
> >> comparing this execution trace to the ax86 source-code of P.
> >>
> >> (b) Verify that this execution trace shows that P is stuck in
> >> infinitely nested simulation (a non-halting behavior).
> >>
> >> This proof can only be understood only by those having sufficient
> >> technical competence in:
> >> (a) software engineering (recognizing infinite recursion in C and
> >> x86 code) (b) the x86 programming language
> >> (c) the C programming language and
> >> (d) the details of how C is translated into x86 by the Microsoft C
> >> compilers.
> >>
> >> #include <stdint.h>
> >> #define u32 uint32_t
> >>
> >> void P(u32 x)
> >> {
> >>     if (H(x, x))
> >>       HERE: goto HERE;
> >>     return;
> >> }
> >>
> >> int main()
> >> {
> >>     Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)P, (u32)P));
> >> }
> >>
> >> _P()
> >> [00001352](01)  55              push ebp
> >> [00001353](02)  8bec            mov ebp,esp
> >> [00001355](03)  8b4508          mov eax,[ebp+08]
> >> [00001358](01)  50              push eax
> >> [00001359](03)  8b4d08          mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> >> [0000135c](01)  51              push ecx
> >> [0000135d](05)  e840feffff      call 000011a2 // call H
> >> [00001362](03)  83c408          add esp,+08
> >> [00001365](02)  85c0            test eax,eax
> >> [00001367](02)  7402            jz 0000136b
> >> [00001369](02)  ebfe            jmp 00001369
> >> [0000136b](01)  5d              pop ebp
> >> [0000136c](01)  c3              ret
> >> Size in bytes:(0027) [0000136c]
> >>
> >> _main()
> >> [00001372](01)  55              push ebp
> >> [00001373](02)  8bec            mov ebp,esp
> >> [00001375](05)  6852130000      push 00001352 // push P
> >> [0000137a](05)  6852130000      push 00001352 // push P
> >> [0000137f](05)  e81efeffff      call 000011a2 // call H
> >> [00001384](03)  83c408          add esp,+08
> >> [00001387](01)  50              push eax
> >> [00001388](05)  6823040000      push 00000423 // "Input_Halts = "
> >> [0000138d](05)  e8e0f0ffff      call 00000472 // call Output
> >> [00001392](03)  83c408          add esp,+08
> >> [00001395](02)  33c0            xor eax,eax
> >> [00001397](01)  5d              pop ebp
> >> [00001398](01)  c3              ret
> >> Size in bytes:(0039) [00001398]
> >>
> >>       machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
> >>       address   address   data      code       language
> >>       ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
> >> ...[00001372][0010229e][00000000] 55         push ebp
> >> ...[00001373][0010229e][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> >> ...[00001375][0010229a][00001352] 6852130000 push 00001352 // push
> >> P ...[0000137a][00102296][00001352] 6852130000 push 00001352 //
> >> push P ...[0000137f][00102292][00001384] e81efeffff call 000011a2
> >> // call H
> >>
> >> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored
> >> at:212352 ...[00001352][0021233e][00212342] 55         push ebp
> >>   // enter P ...[00001353][0021233e][00212342] 8bec       mov
> >> ebp,esp ...[00001355][0021233e][00212342] 8b4508     mov
> >> eax,[ebp+08] ...[00001358][0021233a][00001352] 50         push eax
> >>      // push P ...[00001359][0021233a][00001352] 8b4d08     mov
> >> ecx,[ebp+08] ...[0000135c][00212336][00001352] 51         push ecx
> >>      // push P ...[0000135d][00212332][00001362] e840feffff call
> >> 000011a2 // call H ...[00001352][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 55
> >> push ebp      // enter P ...[00001353][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8bec
> >>    mov ebp,esp ...[00001355][0025cd66][0025cd6a] 8b4508     mov
> >> eax,[ebp+08] ...[00001358][0025cd62][00001352] 50         push eax
> >>      // push P ...[00001359][0025cd62][00001352] 8b4d08     mov
> >> ecx,[ebp+08] ...[0000135c][0025cd5e][00001352] 51         push ecx
> >>      // push P ...[0000135d][0025cd5a][00001362] e840feffff call
> >> 000011a2 // call H Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected
> >> Simulation Stopped
> >>
> >> H sees that P is calling the same function from the same machine
> >> address with identical parameters, twice in sequence. This is the
> >> infinite recursion (infinitely nested simulation) non-halting
> >> behavior pattern.
> >>
> >> ...[00001384][0010229e][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
> >> ...[00001387][0010229a][00000000] 50         push eax
> >> ...[00001388][00102296][00000423] 6823040000 push 00000423 //
> >> "Input_Halts ="
> >> ---[0000138d][00102296][00000423] e8e0f0ffff call 00000472 // call
> >> Output Input_Halts = 0
> >> ...[00001392][0010229e][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
> >> ...[00001395][0010229e][00000000] 33c0       xor eax,eax
> >> ...[00001397][001022a2][00100000] 5d         pop ebp
> >> ...[00001398][001022a6][00000004] c3         ret
> >> Number of Instructions Executed(15892) lines = 237 pages
> >>
> >>
> >> Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation
> >> (V5)
> >>
> >> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359984584_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation_V5
> >>  
> > 
> > Your simulation approach is erroneous as there is no infinite
> > recursion; the key to understanding this is by realizing the
> > implication of the words "pass its own source" in the following:  
> 
> 
> YOU IGNORED THIS PART
> 
> This proof can only be understood only by those having sufficient
> technical competence in:
> (a) software engineering - recognizing infinite recursion in C/x86
> (b) the x86 programming language
> (c) the C programming language and
> (d) the details of how C is translated into x86 by the Microsoft C
> compilers.

(a) I have been a software developer/engineer since 1993 and am able to
recognize infinite recursion and additionally, and more importantly, a
lack of infinite recursion.
(b) I have been familiar with x86 assembly since before 1993
(c) I understand and have competence in both C and C++ (having used the
latter since 1993)
(d) I have written a compiler, have you?

/Flibble

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Thread

Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 13:07 -0500
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-11 20:11 +0100
    Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 19:23 -0500
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 21:02 -0400
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:31 +0100
        Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:43 -0500
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:43 +0100
        Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:45 -0500
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 18:47 +0100
            Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 12:51 -0500
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 19:00 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 13:06 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-12 19:13 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 21:12 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 15:18 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 23:58 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:28 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 01:40 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 20:32 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:48 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 13:38 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 20:56 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 19:09 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:50 -0400
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:46 -0400
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 18:45 -0400
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 19:41 -0400
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 01:17 +0100
    Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 19:29 -0500
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 20:52 -0400
      Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 02:10 +0100
        Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-11 21:29 -0500
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-11 23:02 -0400
          Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-12 23:54 +0100
            Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:21 -0500
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-13 00:24 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 18:42 -0500
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 01:35 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-12 20:25 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:41 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 12:05 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 12:01 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 20:06 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 14:24 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 16:11 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 15:22 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 13:26 -0700
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 15:38 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-13 21:44 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 13:27 -0700
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 17:22 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 16:48 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 18:04 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 17:06 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:07 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:09 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:20 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:26 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:04 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:20 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:41 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-13 19:03 -0600
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 21:21 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 22:37 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-13 23:46 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 17:57 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 19:09 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 18:18 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-13 20:09 -0400
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:03 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:11 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:18 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 19:22 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-14 01:28 +0100
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 11:45 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-14 04:28 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 15:55 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-14 08:53 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-15 12:05 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-13 16:11 +0300
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-13 11:15 -0500
                Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ foundation of truth itself ] Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-14 11:26 +0300
              Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-12 21:03 -0400
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-13 16:02 +0300
  Re: Proof that H(P,P)==0 is correct [ refuting the halting problem proofs ](V2) wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 12:21 -0700

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